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KillerShrike
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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:18 pm

NedPepper wrote:There is a difference in the "heat" a wrestler can get. X-Pac heat, which is also reffered to as "Bossman heat" is the kind of heat that makes people change the channel. Or if they're at a live event, boo them and then go get something to eat and a souvenir.



A heel's job is to get a negative reaction when s/he shows up and screws with the face and a positive reaction when the face does something to get back at him/her. That's what happens with Vickie. Thus, she's a good heel. If she were a bad heel, there would be no boos or cheers at all either way.

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Postby NedPepper » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:31 pm

KillerShrike wrote:A heel's job is to get a negative reaction when s/he shows up and screws with the face and a positive reaction when the face does something to get back at him/her. That's what happens with Vickie. Thus, she's a good heel. If she were a bad heel, there would be no boos or cheers at all either way.


But do people tune in to see Vickie Guerreo get beat up? Does she draw money?

A good heel is also a good draw. Without Edge, do you think she would get half the heat she does? I just don't think so. It's not hard for an evil GM to get booed. But it still doesn't make her a great heel in my eyes.

It's kind of like Mike Adamale or Michael Cole. People boo them because they just don't want to see or hear them.

On the other, people LIKE to hate Edge and like to watch him perform.

I can't really explain it any better. Some of these things are just intangibles.

I will say that Vickie has gotten better, but she still grates on my ears when she poorly reads lines someone just wrote for her.

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Postby KillerShrike » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:40 pm

NedPepper wrote:But do people tune in to see Vickie Guerreo get beat up? Does she draw money?

A good heel is also a good draw. Without Edge, do you think she would get half the heat she does? I just don't think so. It's not hard for an evil GM to get booed. But it still doesn't make her a great heel in my eyes.

It's kind of like Mike Adamale or Michael Cole. People boo them because they just don't want to see or hear them.

On the other, people LIKE to hate Edge and like to watch him perform.

I can't really explain it any better. Some of these things are just intangibles.

I will say that Vickie has gotten better, but she still grates on my ears when she poorly reads lines someone just wrote for her.



I think it boils down to whether you like to hate the heel personally, and its especially true of the smart fans.

Edge is liked, so he is a true heel (never mind that he does a lot of things to get "cheap heat").

Orton, at least up until recently, wasn't liked by the online community, so his heat wasn't "real."

The distinction is pretty ridiculous. Every heel is supposed to get a bad reaction from the audience. Almost nobody gets a better one than Vickie Guerrero. It doesn't matter how she "earned" it (but no, I don't think the heat she gets would be as strong if she wasn't paired with Edge). She gets it, and that's all WWE cares about. Otherwise they haven't stuck with this plotline for the past 8 months.

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Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:19 am

KillerShrike wrote:A heel's job is to get a negative reaction when s/he shows up and screws with the face and a positive reaction when the face does something to get back at him/her. That's what happens with Vickie. Thus, she's a good heel. If she were a bad heel, there would be no boos or cheers at all either way.


Kevin Nash got booed more as OZ than as Diesel but that doesn't mean he was a better heel as OZ.

X-Pac got booed more than Edge and Christian. That doesn't mean he was a better heel. If you put out a best of X-Pac DVD and an best of E&C DVD the E&C one would sell a ton more copies. An Orton DVD would outsell the X-Pac one. In fact a best of Lance Storm DVD would outsell the X-Pac DVD, and he never got nearly the reaction that X-Pac got.

A good heel is a draw. A bad heel is not a draw. A bad heel gets heat because people don't want to watch them. A good heel gets booed because people want to watch them lose. If Vickey was removed from Smackdown and all of her promos were handled by Edge and Chavo the show would get the same rating, if not better. If Vicky stayed and all of Edge and Chavo's moments were handled by Ryder and Hawkins and Bam the show would lose ratings. That's how you can tell who is a good heel and who is just hated for sucking.
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Postby KillerShrike » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:16 am

rdrsfn82 wrote:If Vickey was removed from Smackdown and all of her promos were handled by Edge and Chavo the show would get the same rating, if not better. .



I'd love to know how you know this.


Once again, I go back to my original, easy to prove point: Vicky as a heel gets a better reaction from the crowd than almost anyone else on the roster, which is her job. When you do your job, you're considered good at it. Ergo, she's a good heel.

Not hard to go to A to B to C.

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Postby Deux » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:38 am

Edge is the balls. He brings it on PPV, brings it on the mic and brings it to his mouth. If it were doughnuts. But hey, I rationalize his weight gain as relationship weight.

Anyway, I love Edge. I think Vickie gets legit heat. I don't think she gets X-Pac heat, because I don't think she does as bad of a job as yall think she does. She's certainly IMPROVED, especially since the beginning of the year. "EXCUSE ME!" is massively over. We hate her because she's like a bitchy bank teller given too much power. It's awesome. That's just my pref, though.

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Postby Deux » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:39 am

Lord Simian wrote:I am quoting this since everyone else seems to have missed it. :)

I am hereby endorsing this request.


I think he might be obscure to most around here. Which is kind of scary.

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Postby Deux » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:41 am

rdrsfn82 wrote: In fact a best of Lance Storm DVD would outsell the X-Pac DVD, and he never got nearly the reaction that X-Pac got.


Gods don't need petty crowd pop. And Lance Storm is motherfucking divine.

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Postby jza1218 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:06 am

Destiny Frankenstein wrote:Edge is the balls. He brings it on PPV, brings it on the mic and brings it to his mouth. If it were doughnuts. But hey, I rationalize his weight gain as relationship weight.

Anyway, I love Edge. I think Vickie gets legit heat. I don't think she gets X-Pac heat, because I don't think she does as bad of a job as yall think she does. She's certainly IMPROVED, especially since the beginning of the year. "EXCUSE ME!" is massively over. We hate her because she's like a bitchy bank teller given too much power. It's awesome. That's just my pref, though.


Pretty much what I think as well.

She's better than Teddy Long IMO

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Postby genetic freak » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:36 am

jza1218 wrote:Pretty much what I think as well.

She's better than Teddy Long IMO


I just saw this thread. I'm on this side of the debate too. Ditto on the Teddy Long comment.
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Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:16 am

Destiny Frankenstein wrote:Gods don't need petty crowd pop. And Lance Storm is motherfucking divine.


He's probably my favorite wrestler of all time. He's certainly on the short list.
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Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:17 am

jza1218 wrote:Pretty much what I think as well.

She's better than Teddy Long IMO


In fairness Teddy Long is awful. It's not hard to be better than that. The only reason he wasn't booed all the time is because he always gave teh fans what they wanted.
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Postby jza1218 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:20 am

rdrsfn82 wrote:In fairness Teddy Long is awful. It's not hard to be better than that. The only reason he wasn't booed all the time is because he always gave teh fans what they wanted.


Not always. They should have left him alone with the black militant thing. They should have reformed a new Doom tag team instead of pairing him up with chumps like Rodney Mack

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Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:23 am

jza1218 wrote:Not always. They should have left him alone with the black militant thing. They should have reformed a new Doom tag team instead of pairing him up with chumps like Rodney Mack


He's OK as a heel, but he's terrible when he tries to sound hip. I mean really really terrible. I don't think he's a good manager and I think he's an awful GM.
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Postby jza1218 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:26 am

rdrsfn82 wrote:He's OK as a heel, but he's terrible when he tries to sound hip. I mean really really terrible. I don't think he's a good manager and I think he's an awful GM.


Yeah. The WWE really ruined him by stereotyping him and having him do the "Holla" crap.

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