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Severed Djed
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Postby Severed Djed » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:39 pm

Strict31 wrote:That's an odd quote given the fact that not everyone on the first 1701 was an officer, much less the 1701-D...I mean, how many "crewmen" got redshirted just because they happened to be on an Away mission with Kill 'Em All Kirk?


"Crewman" appears to have been a catch-all term referencing any member of the crew, regardless of rank. Most of them wear the Lieutenant stripe, from what I've seen.

That said, I don't think the writers went with the idea, and I don't know if Roddenberry insisted on it, or if its just how he saw things. I believe the dude Dark Half Kirk hospitalizes in that one episode was technically an enlisted man. I'd figure - but I'm just speculating - that most of the guys who had jumpsuits were.

TNG definitely had enlisted crew.

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Postby Strict31 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:03 pm

Severed Djed wrote:"Crewman" appears to have been a catch-all term referencing any member of the crew, regardless of rank. Most of them wear the Lieutenant stripe, from what I've seen.

That said, I don't think the writers went with the idea, and I don't know if Roddenberry insisted on it, or if its just how he saw things. I believe the dude Dark Half Kirk hospitalizes in that one episode was technically an enlisted man. I'd figure - but I'm just speculating - that most of the guys who had jumpsuits were.

TNG definitely had enlisted crew.


Yeah, the TOS dudes in jumpsuits didn't have cuff stripes as I recall.

With regards to TNG, I don't know that they actually formalized the idea of enlisted ranks until O'Brien started to become a more prominent character instead of an extra. But they certainly didn't address it directly and specifically until Moore, who has military experience, took control of DS9.
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Postby Severed Djed » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:11 pm

Strict31 wrote:Yeah, the TOS dudes in jumpsuits didn't have cuff stripes as I recall.

With regards to TNG, I don't know that they actually formalized the idea of enlisted ranks until O'Brien started to become a more prominent character instead of an extra. But they certainly didn't address it directly and specifically until Moore, who has military experience, took control of DS9.


Pretty sure the jumpsuit guys had no stripes. I see them as the Techs - the Life Support System Technician's Mates and such - and the guys who really keep the ship together while it's in space. As such, they're way too valuable to risk on landing party missions.

I can recall one TNG episode revolving around a trial - some heavy handed take on the McCarthy era - where one of the accused was some kid said to have enlisted instead of trying out for the Academy. I think this was in one of the early seasons. But yeah, they focused mostly on the officers. Which is understandable, as the stories of the people who make command decisions would be more interesting in this context.

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Postby Starlord » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:23 am

I watched an old classic episode tonight and three red shirts got killed. And Spock got shot with poison darts from a plant, ran into a force field, and hit in the back by a bolt of lightening. I was laughing my ass off by the end of it.

good times...
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Postby Strict31 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:50 am

starlord wrote:I watched an old classic episode tonight and three red shirts got killed. And Spock got shot with poison darts from a plant, ran into a force field, and hit in the back by a bolt of lightening. I was laughing my ass off by the end of it.

good times...


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Postby Daniel » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:59 am

I've never seen a full episode of Star Trek.
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starlord wrote::shock: That's the first time paper has ever given me an erection!

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Postby Severed Djed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:07 am

starlord wrote:I watched an old classic episode tonight and three red shirts got killed. And Spock got shot with poison darts from a plant, ran into a force field, and hit in the back by a bolt of lightening. I was laughing my ass off by the end of it.

good times...


Sounds like "The Apple", which is the episode that cemented the redshirt legend.

The guy getting killed by the flower has to be the most embarassing Trek death ever.

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Postby Starlord » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:12 am

Severed Djed wrote:Sounds like "The Apple", which is the episode that cemented the redshirt legend.

The guy getting killed by the flower has to be the most embarassing Trek death ever.


It was the Apple. By the time the last guy got clubbed, Bones didn't say a word, just gave Kirk "the look".
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Postby Severed Djed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:14 am

starlord wrote:It was the Apple. By the time the last guy got clubbed, Bones didn't say a word, just gave Kirk "the look".


It's Spock who does the social commentary after that bit, anyway.

Inbetween bouts of being maimed.

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Postby Starlord » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:16 am

Severed Djed wrote:It's Spock who does the social commentary after that bit, anyway.

Inbetween bouts of being maimed.


Yeah, he was the vocal observer. Nice bit about who looked like Satan on the ship, at the end, as well.
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Postby Severed Djed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:17 am

starlord wrote:Yeah, he was the vocal observer. Nice bit about who looked like Satan on the ship, at the end, as well.


Did they all have a nice laugh at the end, despite four members of the crew getting killed? The show went through that phase for a while.

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Postby Starlord » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:21 am

Severed Djed wrote:Did they all have a nice laugh at the end, despite four members of the crew getting killed? The show went through that phase for a while.


Yeah. All's well that ends well. I kept thinking if I was that last red shirt guy I'd of held up in a cave somewhere and said screw this. LOL!
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Postby Severed Djed » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:26 am

starlord wrote:Yeah. All's well that ends well. I kept thinking if I was that last red shirt guy I'd of held up in a cave somewhere and said screw this. LOL!


If I were a redshirt, I'd run for cover every time I saw the Big 3 heading for the transporter room.

What I love most about this episode is that, after the first guy gets killed (by the flower), Chekov shows his grief by trying to paw that Yeoman while Scotty pines for a vacation. Only Kirk seems to care, and that's only because the dude died on his watch and that means paperwork.

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Postby Strict31 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:12 pm

Earlier, I was watching one of the worst TNG episodes ever ("Cause and Effect"), and it reminded me of something I really grew to hate about modern day Trek.

Whenever something happens, that you or I would just ignore or dismiss as foolishness or a figment of imagination, they start running tri-phase particle scans and aim the gravimetric sensor array at it. And invariably discover "plot-particle emmission."

I'm watching this episode, and Crusher is sitting there saying, "I heard voices last night, and no one was there!"

And I'm thinking, if I was Picard, my first reaction would be, "That's because you're a crazy bitch, Beverly, now shut the fuck up when mens is talkin'."

Instead, Geordie starts analyzing and what-not.

And they're forever doing shit like that. I mean, I guess in the future, when quantum anomalies pop up around every corner, you can't afford to dismiss something as mere crazy-bitchitude or stellar transphase shutthefuckuposis.

But goddamn, I just wish for once that a bump in the night on the Enterprise was still just a bump in the night.


Bad enough they kept showing the same goddamn poker game every fifteen minutes...
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Postby jeremy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:35 pm

Severed Djed wrote:If I were a redshirt, I'd run for cover every time I saw the Big 3 heading for the transporter room.

What I love most about this episode is that, after the first guy gets killed (by the flower), Chekov shows his grief by trying to paw that Yeoman while Scotty pines for a vacation. Only Kirk seems to care, and that's only because the dude died on his watch and that means paperwork.



The poor redshirts, I always feel bad for yeoman johnson. I thought it was hilarious in that Tim Allen movie, where that guy was with them that died as a "redshirt" pretty much was freaking out all the time.

I also thought that about Hellboy. I told my gf I'd hate to be one of the normal agents that gets sent along with hellboy and his crew when they check stuff out, b/c they always end up dead.

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