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The Star Wars Clone Wars Thread

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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:25 pm

Well, the Jango clones don't last that much after the Jedi Purge given the Empire uses other clones for their Storm Troopers. Hence why George hasn't redubbed the Clones into talking like Jango. Which make's sense since the only true clone of his walking around is Boba who gee George redubbed. :P

Honestly, I rather keep learning about Rex and Cody since they're the two main Clones we've seen in Episode III and in Gendy's series (Cody at least).
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Nightfly

Staff Writer

Postby Nightfly » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:04 pm

Strict31 wrote:They're clones. Their personality is that they turn into faceless killers. They're not heroes. They're the guys who become the equally faceless legion of Stormtroopers. Their destiny is to get bitch-slapped by Ewoks.

These are the guys they want us to empathize with? To get to know?

I don't really want to see entire episodes devoted to "Better Know a Clonetrooper" segments.

Gotta disagree w/ ya here buddy. Even in the Clone Wars Adventures (digest) comics the Clone Troopers have been used to great psychological and emotional effect.

My brother missed last nite's epi and asked me what it was about. I said, "it was mainly about Cmdr. Cody & some n00b clone troopers", to which he said "cool".
He and I both like Cody, and both love the idea of an ever-expanding SW universe.
I didn't tell him about the important bit of unit re-assignment at the end ;-) I'm gonna let that be a surprise when he sees it.

The last time I discussed the series with him, we shared our favorite single moments of the show so far. My favorite was the scene when Yoda points out to the troopers how unique each one of them truly are.
Not to sound overly preachy, but a lot of people in our world today devalue themselves (and therefore others), and whole nations -like China- devalue human life in general.
I've personally gone thru bouts of despression when I didn't think I was worth much... and I can only imagine what a dejected clone could conjure up in the way of self-devaluation.
From a religious p.o.v., I really appreciated the essential, elementary message that every soul is unique and inherently precious in its own right - even if you're poor, even if you're in the minority, even if you are a fuckin clone... always.

Part of why I want the SW universe to keep expanding is because I believe, like Shatner often says of Trek, that this is our modern mythology. And as a big fan of J.Campbell I think shared myths are vitally important and essential to a healthy 'n sane approach to our complicated lives.

I know you love SW expansion too Strict31, so most of the above ain't about disagreeing w/ you. I just thought the Clone Troopers needed a little love so I decided to say my (above) peace.

I'd love it if Lucas could eventually get the message thoroughly across that the clones are not disposable.
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:07 pm

Strict31 wrote:They're clones. Their personality is that they turn into faceless killers. They're not heroes. They're the guys who become the equally faceless legion of Stormtroopers. Their destiny is to get bitch-slapped by Ewoks.

These are the guys they want us to empathize with? To get to know?

I don't really want to see entire episodes devoted to "Better Know a Clonetrooper" segments.


Sorry you feel that way. Though it is the nature of the clonetroopers, it is through no fault of their own that that happens. I do think that it is sad that they somehow learn, even through similar upbrining (this is via EU) to have interests and develop personalities, only to be stripped of it later. An army of Manchurian Candidates.
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Nightfly

Staff Writer

Postby Nightfly » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:58 pm

sdsichero wrote:only to be stripped of it later.

when does this happen? are you talking about Order 66?

the clones were gonna be soldiers until they died no matter what side they fought for - did the Emperor do something further to limit their individuality?
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:11 pm

But don't most clones have a short life span? Honestly the most battle harden are the ones that become the leaders like Rex and Cody.
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:29 pm

Nightfly wrote:when does this happen? are you talking about Order 66?

the clones were gonna be soldiers until they died no matter what side they fought for - did the Emperor do something further to limit their individuality?


I meant Order 66. Basically Order 66 took away their free will. While on a day to day basis they may not be without individuality, after that order they turned into a killing machine at the whim of the emperor. Previous to this they were impelled to do things via training, 66 did not allow for choice.

I rather liked Gree's backstory, that he became interested in alien lifeforms and that is why he was named Gree after species he found that was thought to be gone. He, along with 99 other clones were taken into training for out-of-the-box thinking. The order took that independence away in a sense, and well... he lost his head at Kashyyyk.

Bly was written to be reluctant to follow the order, but did. However it was said that he made Secura's death quick, so there is that sense that they have their consciousness still there when they are executing the order.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:32 pm

Is this show any good? do you have to see the movie to understand it?
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:41 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Is this show any good? do you have to see the movie to understand it?


I rather like it, but I do think opinions vary.

Don't think you need to see the movie at all. Only major thing that was introduced in the movie was Anakin's padawan, but just being able to accept that should get you far.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:46 pm

sdsichero wrote:I meant Order 66. Basically Order 66 took away their free will. While on a day to day basis they may not be without individuality, after that order they turned into a killing machine at the whim of the emperor. Previous to this they were impelled to do things via training, 66 did not allow for choice.

I rather liked Gree's backstory, that he became interested in alien lifeforms and that is why he was named Gree after species he found that was thought to be gone. He, along with 99 other clones were taken into training for out-of-the-box thinking. The order took that independence away in a sense, and well... he lost his head at Kashyyyk.

Bly was written to be reluctant to follow the order, but did. However it was said that he made Secura's death quick, so there is that sense that they have their consciousness still there when they are executing the order.



Yeah, the clones did find themselves somewhat remorseful for their actions, but they where conditioned to follow the every word and whim of the Emperor without question.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:47 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Is this show any good? do you have to see the movie to understand it?


I say yeah. I didn't see the movie and I already understand what's going on. I say if you watched Gendy's Clone Wars and this you'll understand what's going on and the characters involved since all of them save for Anakin's Padawan where introduced in that series.
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Nightfly

Staff Writer

Postby Nightfly » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:59 pm

sdsichero wrote:Bly was written to be reluctant to follow the order, but did. However it was said that he made Secura's death quick, so there is that sense that they have their consciousness still there when they are executing the order.

Yeah, wasn't that shown in the most recent Battlefront? The clones, some of whom were already resenting the Jedi, had the utmost respect for Aayla.
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:15 am

Nightfly wrote:Yeah, wasn't that shown in the most recent Battlefront? The clones, some of whom were already resenting the Jedi, had the utmost respect for Aayla.


Sorry, don't follow Battlefront. :oops:
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Nightfly

Staff Writer

Postby Nightfly » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:25 am

sdsichero wrote:Sorry, don't follow Battlefront. :oops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_II

from Wiki:
Plot
The game is told as a frame story, with an Imperial stormtrooper recounting the adventures of the 501st Legion. Originally, the Legion was part of the Old Republic, and fights against the Separatists from Geonosis to Utapau. After Emperor Palpatine commands that Order 66 be carried out, the 501st leads a massacre of the Jedi at their temple on Coruscant, coming under the direct supervision of Darth Vader. Feared throughout the galaxy, the 501st becomes known as "Vader's Fist". Under their new leader the 501st executes missions such as a forced regime change on Naboo, the destruction of a new droid army on Mustafar and an attempted clone rebellion on Kamino.

With the Galactic Empire firmly established in the ashes of the Old Republic, the 501st soon grows bored of the endless tedium, drills and inspection associated with maintaining the empire. When the Death Star's schematics are stolen, Vader leads the Legion across the galaxy in search of the plans, eventually leading to the boarding of the Tantive IV. Despite capturing the Rebel sympathizer Princess Leia, the plans are still transmitted, and the Death Star is destroyed. The 501st is then pressed into crushing the fledgling Rebel Alliance, leading to the victory at Hoth, where the narrator proudly proclaims the Rebellion finished.


It showed that some (if not many) of the clones weren't too crazy about the Jedi even before Order 66.
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:22 am

Nightfly wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Battlefront_II

from Wiki:
Plot
The game is told as a frame story, with an Imperial stormtrooper recounting the adventures of the 501st Legion. Originally, the Legion was part of the Old Republic, and fights against the Separatists from Geonosis to Utapau. After Emperor Palpatine commands that Order 66 be carried out, the 501st leads a massacre of the Jedi at their temple on Coruscant, coming under the direct supervision of Darth Vader. Feared throughout the galaxy, the 501st becomes known as "Vader's Fist". Under their new leader the 501st executes missions such as a forced regime change on Naboo, the destruction of a new droid army on Mustafar and an attempted clone rebellion on Kamino.

With the Galactic Empire firmly established in the ashes of the Old Republic, the 501st soon grows bored of the endless tedium, drills and inspection associated with maintaining the empire. When the Death Star's schematics are stolen, Vader leads the Legion across the galaxy in search of the plans, eventually leading to the boarding of the Tantive IV. Despite capturing the Rebel sympathizer Princess Leia, the plans are still transmitted, and the Death Star is destroyed. The 501st is then pressed into crushing the fledgling Rebel Alliance, leading to the victory at Hoth, where the narrator proudly proclaims the Rebellion finished.


It showed that some (if not many) of the clones weren't too crazy about the Jedi even before Order 66.


Cool, thanks.

I really liked the way they depicted the clone armor (the phase II armor) in RotS. It's too bad the troopers became all alike by the time of ANH.
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Strict31

Rain Partier

Postby Strict31 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:30 am

Nightfly wrote:Yeah, wasn't that shown in the most recent Battlefront? The clones, some of whom were already resenting the Jedi, had the utmost respect for Aayla.


I remember playing that game and thinking, if these cats had such a hard on for Aayla, why did they shoot her so many times after she had fallen already? That doesn't seem like an act of compassion, but rather of contempt.

One of the oddest moments of Battlefronts is where the game advances the time period from Old republic to Empire, and the 501st goes directloy from "being the good guys" to mercilessly pacifying some planet full of the actual good guys.

If nothing else, that should really teach you what the deal is with these clones.

No matter how much EU sources like to give them personalities to humanize them; no matter how much the 501st is romanticized, make no mistake, people. These are the bad guys.

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