dairydead wrote:I mean, its cool if you cherry pick parts of what i said, i guess. Bottom line is, the guy was never very loyal in the first place. The dude didn't need to slaughter the whole village, but he did because he felt like it. Right then and there is the point where you realize there's a couple screws loose. I couldn't tell you the "logic" behind every killer out there, mostly because there isnt.
It's kind of ironic that you're talking about cherry picking when you're completely ignoring the fact that these creatures had just murdered his mother. We're not talking about every killer out there. We're talking about a guy whose mother was just murdered by a race of beings who routinely murder and attack other beings with no provocation. You're dancing around that, but it's a fact of the setting. One less village of Sand People is one less village of Sand People who will
attack, abduct and murder people.
Star Wars is a story of polar extremes, and in this story, the Tusken Raiders are the bad guys.
And I'm curious; what does loyalty have to do with anything?
What we do know, given what we've seen is that Anakin is a selfish, dark guy who has absolutely no problem with killing when he sees fit.
Then I'm afraid that's utter bullshit. Maybe you are forgetting the scene where he expresses remorse and shame for what he did immediately after doing it. Your facts are a bit off here, because that's not the act of a guy who "has no problem killing when he sees fit." I mean, this shit is right in the fuckin' movie, D. Are you arguing with me just for the fuck of it?
He doesn't even kill Padme's would be assassin when he has the chance because it's smarter to let her live to get information from her. She had just tried to murder the woman he loves more than anything in the galaxy, but he's quite capable of restraining himself.
And, you've basically described almost every teenager ever. Selfish and dark. He's whiny and bratty and self-focused. If he didn't carry a lightsaber, he'd be a normal teenager. Well...maybe a little whinier than normal.
Okay a lot whinier than normal. But all that means is he is a bitch-ass. It doesn't mean he's fucking crazy or some shit. As for the killing, this boy is a fuckin' Jedi. They don't give out those lightsabers so Padawans can see in the fuckin' dark. They're weapons, and they're given to children who are taught how to kill with them. If Anakin is a killer, it's the Jedi Order that has trained him to be one. I mean, you don't see him killing people before he joins the Order. Even as a child, he acts to protect and save people.
He's established himself as the judge, jury, and executioner, and as he progresses, he feels he should do what he wants ( become a Jedi Master when hes obviously not qualified). He's very very unstable, to the point where he will kill whomever he pleases, and Palpatine knows this. He knows Anakin has hate in his heart and exploits it, pushing every single button perfectly until he gets Anakin to kill Mace. The Force is not something you fuck around with, and when a person isn't perfectly balanced, things tend to go bad. Like Yoda said, its really easy to fall when emotion comes into play, since the Force is essentially based on emotion.
Oh please, Dairy. Kill whomever he pleases? Where in the fuck are you getting this shit? You didn't get it from the movies. I mean, you're making this shit up out of whole cloth at this point. Even when he has every right to kill Dooku, he hesitates. He doesn't want to do it, but feels the man is too dangerous to live. And since they're on a rescue mission deep inside an enemy ship, it ain't like they can take prisoners. Palpy goads him into the killing, but tactically, it makes sense. The leader of an enemy force is a valid target in a war. And that's the fuck what they're in the middle of. A war. He can't take dooku prisoner, but if he lets him go free, Dooku will continue to lead his troops to kill members of the Republic.
It's a cold logic, but it is logical to kill him.
And he doesn't want to do it! Like I said, Palpy goads him into doing it.
Who else has he wantonly killed, Dairy? Geonoshans who were trying to kill him, his lover and all of his Jedi associates? Droids? Exactly who the fuck is he just wantonly killing as he pleases? Like all jedi, there's a reason behind his killing. Sometimes, it's emotion-driven, like the Tuskens, even though that makes sense. Sometimes it's tactically driven, like Dooku, even though he didn't want to. Sometimes it's expediency, like the geonoshians, because they're actively trying to kill him. And sometimes, it's traitors and sometimes it's evil bounty hunters. But no, he's not killing whomever he pleases.
And i don't know if youre trying to be funny or something, but its pretty obvious that his dream about Padme isnt "just some dream", its a force premonition, something he has been shown to be gifted in ( as evidenced with his mother). He has no reason to believe its not real , in fact it was probably influenced by Palpatine. Even in Empire, Anakin lures Luke to Bespin using the exact same method.
Do you or do you not remember Yoda telling Luke, "Always in motion the future is"? "Difficult to tell"? That's the goddamn head master of the Jedi, who's trained muthafuckas for centuries. If Anakin is having a vision of the future (which he, himself made happen), he should damn well know, as a jedi, that nothing is written in stone.
So, yes, it may or may not happen until it happens. And because he turned to the dark Side, he was the one who was causing all her pain in the vision. This is why Yoda told Luke that the future is difficult to tell. Because Anakin did not see a complete vision of the future. Again, as a Jedi Knight, he should fucking know this. And as an audience member, you should fucking know this too. But, we're back to the irony of your cherry-picking statement earlier. You're doing it.
Anakin is a dude who really likes to kill, hates the Jedi Order, is batshit crazy, has had everything he's ever known fall apart in front of him, he "knows" his wife is gonna die unless he does something about it, has been shown to be easily manipulated, has a lot of hatred in him, and is willing to do something about it. Honestly, in real life, weirder things have happened than someone believing his mentor when he is told that "everything you hate will go away, and the only thing you love can be saved, if you kill some people". Especially since he's killed many people and sentients before, and is caught in the heat of the moment after killing the head of the Jedi Order. He was looking at prison time, the guilt of killing a teacher, and his wife dying. Or he could just continue down the path he already knew he was on. There wasn't much choice he had there, except killing Palpatine , the only real friend he had.
You've got nothing to back any of what you've said up. He's not a guy who really likes to kill, and the movies prove that, as I've pointed out above. He's not batshit crazy, he's a teenager who lost his mom and is forced to fight in a war. he doesn't hate the Order, or else he would have fuckin' left long ago. it's impossible for him to know his wife is gonna die because as a Jedi, he should know that the future is always in motion. He's no more easily manipulated than any other youth with a chip on his shoulder who is being told by authority figures what he has to do with his life. And the only people and sentients he's killed are those who have tried their utter damnedest to either kill him or harm the people he cares about.
And jesus did you even watch the movies? He didn't kill the head of the Jedi order. presumably, you're talking about mace Windu, who isn't the head of the order anyway. But he didn't kill Mace. He chopped his hand off to keep him from killing a presumably helpless foe. Palpy kills Mace because, unbeknownst to both Windu and Anakin, he was just playing possum.
I...look man, your fucking facts are just wrong. I don't know where you're getting this from.
So, kill the people you hate, and have been led to believe hate you, or spend your life in prison while your wife dies. Not a hard choice, especially when youre already a little bit crazy.
Bottom line here is, not every single character in fiction thinks exactly how you would. Its not a lack of logic. Its actually kinda funny how you don't seem to get such simple ideas presented here.
I think the bottom line is that your interpretation is based on facts that are almost completely wrong. I can only imagine this is because you are misremembering the movies, or haven't seen them in a while. Either way, it's kinda silly you trying to take me to task for "not getting such simple ideas." I know it's just an internet argument about a fictional tale, but damn. I mean, here you are being utterly wrong about so much shit and having the nerve to claim I'm the one who's mistaken.
Might wanna get a leg to stand on before you try to start kicking somebody else. I'm just sayin'. I dunno. Maybe we can continue this discussion when you get your facts about the story straight. I mean, If you have a different interpretation of this shit, that's whatever it is; people disagree and shit all the time. But if your interpretation is based on shit that's simply wrong, that ain't a valid fuckin' interpretation.