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[Doc Jon]

I have to disagree with you there, bro. It's not even the fact that they turned Hal evil that's my main bone of contention is just how they went about it. First off, there was no real build up to Hal going psycho after the Coast City genocide, it was just boom-Hal-is-now-a-villain-so-let's-replace-him-with-someone-new moment. The main reason for this decision was because DC was trying to get rid of Hal for years but couldn't find a proper way to do it. Originally, I heard there were plans to make Hal a Guardian and then bring in Kyle to replace him, however Kevin Dooley( Who has obviously high on some illegal substance) decided to give us this hack story as an obvious screw-you to Hal's character. Overall, this was more of a vendetta against Hals Jordan himself rather than a need to replace him. If they were going to replace Hal, have him go out in a blaze of glory like Barry Allen did before Wally took over-that I wouldn't have had a problem with.
Plus, how do you think the fans would have reacted if Kevin Dooley had tried this with Superman or Batman? Can you imagine if they turned Bruce Wayne into a serial killer before replacing him Jean Paul Valley or if they made Clark Kent into rapist before those 4 Supermen showed up? Kevin Dooley would have been instantly fired for even bringing that past the editorial board.

There's a difference: no one gave a shit about GL at that point. Turning Hal evil was what caused controversy.

It was like all the people bitching about Aquaman's hand and the spear. They did it because no one fucking cared or was paying attention. It was really only after that most comic readers jumped in, only after the controversy hit.

Hal was boring. Hal is still boring. He was replaced because people were bored with the character.

[draco x]

amen, brother. in a shitty mini-series filled to the brim with character assasination, Ben was the on who got handled the worst IMO. leaving for France? no. just...no.

True. The worst part of that issue were those blatant Justice League ripoff characters he encountered, namely Les Heroes De Paris. I mean doesn't Marvel have the Squadron Supreme in that capacity?

[draco x]

There's a difference: no one gave a shit about GL at that point. Turning Hal evil was what caused controversy.

It was like all the people bitching about Aquaman's hand and the spear. They did it because no one fucking cared or was paying attention. It was really only after that most comic readers jumped in, only after the controversy hit.

Hal was boring. Hal is still boring. He was replaced because people were bored with the character.

That's exactly the point. Apart from the obvious vendetta against Hal, this was a blatant cash-grab. But as I said before, do you really think that Dooley and Marz could ever try turning Batman and Superman evil before replacing them even if their books weren't selling? They were only allowed to try that with Hal because Green Lantern sells less than them. If they had ever tried that with Bruce or Clark, the fans would have had their heads and those two would be out of a job.
What would have been more impressive is if Green Lantern's book could have sold again with a new GL without making Hal look bad.

[Doc Jon]

That's exactly the point. Apart from the obvious vendetta against Hal, this was a blatant cash-grab. But as I said before, do you really think that Dooley and Marz could ever try turning Batman and Superman evil before replacing them even if their books weren't selling? They were only allowed to try that with Hal because Green Lantern sells less than them. If they had ever tried that with Bruce or Clark, the fans would have had their heads and those two would be out of a job.
What would have been more impressive is if Green Lantern's book could have sold again with a new GL without making Hal look bad.

Honestly, I didn't mind Hal becoming evil. I may have had problems with the execution, but it had so much potential.

How many heroes (outside of indy stuff) ever truly go to the darkside? The most famous example is probably Phoenix, but that wasn't nearly the same. Hal was the best and brightest of the GL's and his fall could have been one of the greatest things ever in comics. I miss stuff like that. I hate this recycled shit that is comics now.

I hate that Barry Allen is the fucking Flash and that everything that was cool about his death and Wally making good on the legacy is erased.

It's probably the reason I don't read many comics anymore. I've read the stories already. All I'm getting now is 19 pages of recycled crap from someone who probably did it better 20 years ago.

[draco x]

Honestly, I didn't mind Hal becoming evil. I may have had problems with the execution, but it had so much potential.

How many heroes (outside of indy stuff) ever truly go to the darkside? The most famous example is probably Phoenix, but that wasn't nearly the same. Hal was the best and brightest of the GL's and his fall could have been one of the greatest things ever in comics. I miss stuff like that. I hate this recycled shit that is comics now.

I hate that Barry Allen is the fucking Flash and that everything that was cool about his death and Wally making good on the legacy is erased.

It's probably the reason I don't read many comics anymore. I've read the stories already. All I'm getting now is 19 pages of recycled crap from someone who probably did it better 20 years ago.

Well you did forget Professor X as Onslaught-although he wasn't in control of his actions then. However, I do agree with you about Barry Allen as I personally saw no need to bring him back as he got a proper sendoff and went out in a blaze of glory-unlike Hal.

[Doc Jon]

Well you did forget Professor X as Onslaught-although he wasn't in control of his actions then. However, I do agree with you about Barry Allen as I personally saw no need to bring him back as he got a proper sendoff and went out in a blaze of glory-unlike Hal.

They've done a million things like Prof X. But he wasn't really evil. It was an aspect of him and Magneto and that shit was weak.

Hal did go out in a blaze of glory, but it was him becoming evil and taking out the Corps, which was awesome. As has been mentioned, making it about some fear bug that was controlling him was the stupid part. Again, how many heroes have truly turned to the dark side? In continuity? Not some Maestro shit or alternate reality?

Hal's turn was one of the coolest things they could have done for the character. They simply lacked the vision to truly execute it.

[draco x]

They've done a million things like Prof X. But he wasn't really evil. It was an aspect of him and Magneto and that shit was weak.

Hal did go out in a blaze of glory, but it was him becoming evil and taking out the Corps, which was awesome. As has been mentioned, making it about some fear bug that was controlling him was the stupid part. Again, how many heroes have truly turned to the dark side? In continuity? Not some Maestro shit or alternate reality?

Hal's turn was one of the coolest things they could have done for the character. They simply lacked the vision to truly execute it.

If there had been a plausible build-up like I said, then I could agree. Maybe prior to Coast City being destroyed Hal goes turns darker and more violent like would have worked and then have his city being destroyed being what drove him over the edge for good. Also, the whole part where he slaughtered the corps was also stupid. I can't believe the Guardians would have just stood by and let Hal enter the battery without putting up a good fight. Also, where were most of the corps like John and Guy when this happened? Why weren't any of them available to stop him? Another gripe I have is his reasons for being Parallax where he wanted to play with time and screw over reality. If he had just wanted Coast City resurrected that would be one thing but it just became a huge cluster-fuck by that point. It just felt like that crapfest Maximum Carnage in the Spider-books.

[Amoebas]

Excellent inclusions for Ben, Reed, Hal, Gwen & Wanda and completely agree with Civil War being a major set back to every character involved (as was Illuminatti).

Hawkeye changing his stance on killing may seem minor when compared to the others mentioned, but for me, this much loved character hurt just as much.

Also - Wonder Man with his anti-Avengers crap.

[draco x]

Excellent inclusions for Ben, Reed, Hal, Gwen & Wanda and completely agree with Civil War being a major set back to every character involved (as was Illuminatti).

Hawkeye changing his stance on killing may seem minor when compared to the others mentioned, but for me, this much loved character hurt just as much.

Also - Wonder Man with his anti-Avengers crap.

Yeah, I forgot to mention the abomination that Bendis pulled with Wonderman and his Revengers crapfest recently. Why exactly is Wonder Man now a psychopath or better yet why are people like Ethan Edwards( Who is a Christian by the way) throwing down with him? Then again Bendis has ruined so many characters, I am barely surprised.

[Strict31]

I have to disagree with you there, bro. It's not even the fact that they turned Hal evil that's my main bone of contention is just how they went about it. First off, there was no real build up to Hal going psycho after the Coast City genocide, it was just boom-Hal-is-now-a-villain-so-let's-replace-him-with-someone-new moment. The main reason for this decision was because DC was trying to get rid of Hal for years but couldn't find a proper way to do it. Originally, I heard there were plans to make Hal a Guardian and then bring in Kyle to replace him, however Kevin Dooley( Who has obviously high on some illegal substance) decided to give us this hack story as an obvious screw-you to Hal's character. Overall, this was more of a vendetta against Hals Jordan himself rather than a need to replace him. If they were going to replace Hal, have him go out in a blaze of glory like Barry Allen did before Wally took over-that I wouldn't have had a problem with.
Plus, how do you think the fans would have reacted if Kevin Dooley had tried this with Superman or Batman? Can you imagine if they turned Bruce Wayne into a serial killer before replacing him Jean Paul Valley or if they made Clark Kent into rapist before those 4 Supermen showed up? Kevin Dooley would have been instantly fired for even bringing that past the editorial board.

They tried to do equally drastic things with Superman and Batman at the time, but didn't have the balls to go through with it. Superman died and Batman got forcibly retired. But because those two are DC's iconic bread winners, everyone knew that wouldn't be permanent. GL, who was much less an iconic bread winner than either, was expendable. And already had a tradition of other characters taking up the legacy. Just like Barry, they realized they could kill Hal off and still have a monthly GL title with some other character in the suit and ring.

But the comparison is inexact. Neither Supes nor Batman had any event pushing them past the edge of self-control as GL did. Hal was on the very edge when Coast City was destroyed. One of his closest associates (Superman) was dead. Everyone he knew and loved was dead, and there was nothing he could do to save them. He was physically broken after his battle with Mongul.

He was on the very edge when the Guardians told him "NO."

Hal didn't snap just because he was suddenly a murdering dick. He snapped for very believable reasons.

[Doc Jon]

If there had been a plausible build-up like I said, then I could agree. Maybe prior to Coast City being destroyed Hal goes turns darker and more violent like would have worked and then have his city being destroyed being what drove him over the edge for good. Also, the whole part where he slaughtered the corps was also stupid. I can't believe the Guardians would have just stood by and let Hal enter the battery without putting up a good fight. Also, where were most of the corps like John and Guy when this happened? Why weren't any of them available to stop him? Another gripe I have is his reasons for being Parallax where he wanted to play with time and screw over reality. If he had just wanted Coast City resurrected that would be one thing but it just became a huge cluster-fuck by that point. It just felt like that crapfest Maximum Carnage in the Spider-books.

I don't know how much build up you really need. If you suddenly lost everyone you pretty much loved or knew and you conceivably had the power to stop it from happening, I think a good portion of people would snap as well.

I get a little tired of all the freaking build up in today's comics. It's all decompressed bs that could be accomplished in one issue what it now takes 20. I'll take Hal's "abrupt" change to the 6 months it took Ultimate Spidey to even get into the fucking costume.

[LobsterJ]

For me, the worst character assassinations were Speedball and D-man, because they are my two favorite Marvel characters. Made even more painful by the fact that nobody else cares!!!!

[Grayson]

For me, the worst character assassinations were Speedball and D-man, because they are my two favorite Marvel characters. Made even more painful by the fact that nobody else cares!!!!

I cared about the change they made to Speedball. Turning a character like Speedball into that Godawful abomination Penance was definitely one of the worst things to come out of Civil War.

[LobsterJ]

I cared about the change they made to Speedball. Turning a character like Speedball into that Godawful abomination Penance was definitely one of the worst things to come out of Civil War.

The final two issues of Civil War Front Line made me stop buying Marvel Comics after a 20 year habit. I get sad just thinking about those issues

[Benderbrau]

Reviving Bucky.

I don't care how "cool" Winter Soldier is, Bucky being dead was one of the 3 absolutes of the Marvel universe. Breaking that rule was a travesty.