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by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:21 pm

Sitebreaker wrote:
but they are saying that Martin broke Zimmermans nose... one would see the marks from that i would think after it happens right?

the lawyer said his nose was broken. The police said he was bleeding. Sounds like the lawyer might be the one distorting things. Like i said, in a short fight, getting punched once and having your face slammed doesn't * necessarily* lead to huge wounds every time.

by **DMM** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:28 pm

dairydead wrote:
the lawyer said his nose was broken. The police said he was bleeding. Sounds like the lawyer might be the one distorting things. Like i said, in a short fight, getting punched once and having your face slammed doesn't * necessarily* lead to huge wounds every time.

but can lead you to getting shot to death legally.

by **habitual** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:30 pm

dairydead wrote:If the scuffle was as short as its made out to be, its very likely the cuts werent that bad and taken care of fairly easily. I've (unfortunately) been in a few fights and had both parties walk away with, at worst, a bloody nose. Just because Zimmerman didn't get beaten to a pulp doesn't mean he wasn't attacked.

You should watch the video, there were no cuts, no scuff marks, no bruises not a mark no bandages, no blood, nothing.

There is no physical evidence in that video to support any of Zimmerman's statements in regards to his life being in danger, that's they key. That's most likely why the lead homicide detective wanted him arrested.

Hab

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:36 pm

DMM wrote: but can lead you to getting shot to death legally.

Sure. Brawls, when guns are thrown into the mix, are often extremely short. Just last year, my cousin killed a man in self defense ( at least thats what he said) because he got pinned down and reached for his gun immediately and both of them wrestled for it until it went off and killed the guy who attacked him. If you're overpowered, the first thing youre gonna do (instinctually ) is reach for your best chance of ending a beating, and if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun, there's no way there wasn't at least an attempt to take it from him.

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:40 pm

habitual wrote:
You should watch the video, there were no cuts, no scuff marks, no bruises not a mark no bandages, no blood, nothing.

There is no physical evidence in that video to support any of Zimmerman's statements in regards to his life being in danger, that's they key. That's most likely why the lead homicide detective wanted him arrested.

Hab

i did. Like i said, in a fight this short, there doesn't NEED to be huge gashes. If Martin had Zimmerman pinned down during the attack, Martin may have tried to reach for the gun to end it. It just so happened that Zimmerman got to the gun first.

In a fight that includes a single gun, the entire focus will be on that gun, and whoever can grab that gun.

by **habitual** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:48 pm

dairydead wrote:
i did. Like i said, in a fight this short, there doesn't NEED to be huge gashes. If Martin had Zimmerman pinned down during the attack, Martin may have tried to reach for the gun to end it. It just so happened that Zimmerman got to the gun first.

In a fight that includes a single gun, the entire focus will be on that gun, and whoever can grab that gun.

I understand what you're saying, but, what I saw on the video directly conflicts with what was in the police report. It said Martin was assaulted and had blood on his clothes, he didn't, and it looked like he hadn't received any medical attention as well, which was also in the police report.

Hab

by **e_galston** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:50 pm

dairydead wrote:
i did. Like i said, in a fight this short, there doesn't NEED to be huge gashes. If Martin had Zimmerman pinned down during the attack, Martin may have tried to reach for the gun to end it. It just so happened that Zimmerman got to the gun first.

In a fight that includes a single gun, the entire focus will be on that gun, and whoever can grab that gun.

but wasn't Zimmerman's story that Martin punched him out and then repeatedly bashed his head into the sidewalk?? one would think if everything happened the way he said it happened, that there would be some form of blood or marks on his head...

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:57 pm

habitual wrote:
I understand what you're saying, but, what I saw on the video directly conflicts with what was in the police report. It said Martin was assaulted and had blood on his clothes, he didn't, and it looked like he hadn't received any medical attention as well, which was also in the police report.

Hab

There's a lot to take in here, thats all. I mean, maybe they have an explanation, maybe they don't. It would appear really really sloppy if they couldn't back it up though.

by **DMM** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:30 pm

dairydead wrote:
Sure. Brawls, when guns are thrown into the mix, are often extremely short. Just last year, my cousin killed a man in self defense ( at least thats what he said) because he got pinned down and reached for his gun immediately and both of them wrestled for it until it went off and killed the guy who attacked him. If you're overpowered, the first thing youre gonna do (instinctually ) is reach for your best chance of ending a beating, and if Martin saw Zimmerman's gun, there's no way there wasn't at least an attempt to take it from him.

but why a fight to the death to begin with?

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:32 pm

DMM wrote: but why a fight to the death to begin with?

We are dealing with a potential racist, and a kid who bragged about beating people up. I'm pretty sure testosterone levels were high. Add a gun into the mix, and its game over for someone.

by **DMM** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:33 pm

dairydead wrote:
We are dealing with a potential racist, and a kid who bragged about beating people up. I'm pretty sure testosterone levels were high. Add a gun into the mix, and its game over for someone.

So who's at fault?

Edit: I'll provide the choices: kid walking home with skittles and tea, or guy looking for trouble with a gun?

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:37 pm

DMM wrote:So who's at fault?

In the fight? There isn't any way to know, just yet. I think Zimmerman was an idiot for going after this guy, so i suppose initial blame lies on him. But there is a lot of stuff up in the air right now.

edit: ohhh sarcasm. I don't know what Skittles and Iced Tea have to do with what happened during a physical altercation though. Unrelated: I think the emphasis put on those products is hilarious to be honest. I like all the "artsy" pictures of a dude with a hoody that is out of focus with some skittles and iced tea in the foreground that I've been seeing, as well as the "send your skittles!" campaign. :lol:

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:41 pm

DMM wrote:So who's at fault?

Edit: I'll provide the choices: kid walking home with skittles and tea, or guy looking for trouble with a gun?

If the kid with the skittles attacked, and tried to kill the guy with a gun, the kid.

If the guy with a gun approached the kid with intent to kill him, the guy.

thing is, we don't really know what happened yet.

by **DMM** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:44 pm

dairydead wrote:
In the fight? There isn't any way to know, just yet. I think Zimmerman was an idiot for going after this guy, so i suppose initial blame lies on him. But there is a lot of stuff up in the air right now.

Who do you think is at fault?

I think it's scary that somebody can confront somebody else with no good reason, get in a fight with you-regardless of who throws first punch (it's already been established who started the confrontation)-and then shoot and kill you even if you are unarmed and not apparently posing a lethal threat, and get away with it.

by **dairydead** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:48 pm

DMM wrote:I think it's scary that somebody can confront somebody else with no good reason, get in a fight with you-regardless of who throws first punch (it's already been established who started the confrontation)-and then shoot and kill you even if you are unarmed and not apparently posing a lethal threat, and get away with it.

Its scary, but its reality. A lot of these guys carry guns just so they can give people a hard time and feel confident about it.

Its not a crime to be an antagonistic asshole though. And a lot of these "tough guys" carry guns. Like i said, ive been in way more situations like this than i like (im lucky that ive never been seriously injured), but any fight can end in death, any punch could land in the wrong place etc.

And yes, Martin posed a lethal threat if he did attempt at any time to take the gun from Zimmerman.