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[Cat-Scratch]

I do find it amusing that media reports are very happy to point out that the victim was black, and the killer a "white Hispanic". So many other times, reports refer only to "youths".

What about all of the Obama statements now?

[Stephen Day]

If it turns out that the "victim" was a victim of nothing more than being stupid enough to try to pound the living shit out of a chubby white guy in a state that has strong self-defense laws and lots of people carrying guns, do we get to stop calling him a "victim"?

The thing is Snug, you seem to be jumping to as much of a conclusion that FOX News is absolutely right in what they're reporting as what you're charging Cat about concerning the reporting he's watching and reading.

[Cat-Scratch]

If it turns out that the "victim" was a victim of nothing more than being stupid enough to try to pound the living shit out of a chubby white guy in a state that has strong self-defense laws and lots of people carrying guns, do we get to stop calling him a "victim"?

When he's not dead.

[Cat-Scratch]

The thing is Snug, you seem to be jumping to as much of a conclusion that FOX News is absolutely right in what they're reporting as what you're charging Cat about concerning the reporting he's watching and reading.

Well, it appears Snug was right, given the report I heard on the radio was wrong.

Guess you cannot always believe the media.

[dairydead]

Fox, yeah that is a reliable source of info.

But I would like to know what they were wearing cause, if that was true, it could change e everything.

Also I just learn the Black Panther offered a 10,000 dollar for Zimmerman. Not sure why.

They might have arrest him for safety.

Off subject wonder how much skittles is selling these days.

who cares if its a Fox affiliate, if its true?

[Snug]

The secret witness thing seems to be a bit dubious.

If he spoke to the police on the night of the incident, and that's why they didn't arrest Zimmerman, then he's not exactly a secret witness. He's just a witness no one besides the cops bothered to talk to before, for whatever reason.

I don't know what happened, and the outraged media and Black Panthers don't either. What I do know, living in Arizona, the land of controversial citizens' arrests and self-defense shootings, is that it is best to let the legal system sort these things out. Al, Jesse, and Barry are not helping.

[Cat-Scratch]

If he spoke to the police on the night of the incident, and that's why they didn't arrest Zimmerman, then he's not exactly a secret witness. He's just a witness no one besides the cops bothered to talk to before, for whatever reason.

I don't know what happened, and the outraged media and Black Panthers don't either. What I do know, living in Arizona, the land of controversial citizens' arrests and self-defense shootings, is that it is best to let the legal system sort these things out. Al, Jesse, and Barry are not helping.

What about Obama?

[Snug]

The thing is Snug, you seem to be jumping to as much of a conclusion that FOX News is absolutely right in what they're reporting as what you're charging Cat about concerning the reporting he's watching and reading.

No. I said "if." Cat said the man was shot in the back. The only conclusion I jumped to was that this may not be what it has been painted to be. That's different than offering a fact (shot in the back). All I asked for was a link to some source that could be reliably trusted that said that was so.

[Cat-Scratch]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Obama+ ... story.html

Obama weighs in on Trayvon Martin shooting
President wants thorough probe of vigilante slaying of black teen as public anger swells

U.S. President Barack Obama weighed in on the growing furore over the shooting of black teenager Trayvon Martin Friday, using his experiences as a black parent to call for a thorough investigation into the case.

"When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids," Obama said, in his first words on an incident that has reignited the debate on race relations in America. "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."

The death of 17-year-old Trayvon last month has led to outrage across the U.S. after his killer, George Zimmer-man, used controversial Florida self-defence laws to avoid prosecution.

Obama, who as America's first black president has always shown a reluctance to play the "race" card, pointedly sent his sympathies to the Martin family, describing the killing as a "tragedy" that should lead to national "soul searching."

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin," Obama said.

"And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

Trayvon was killed in Sanford, Fla, as he returned to his father's home from a store where he had bought a packet of candy and some ice tea.

Zimmerman had a history of calling police to his mainly white gated community, and when he dialed 911 he claimed that he had seen a suspicious person who was "probably on drugs." Police told him not to follow the suspect, but Zimmerman did not obey.

A girlfriend who was on the phone to Trayvon - who was wearing a hoodie - says she heard him being shoved to the ground. Neighbours heard screams for help before a shot rang out.

Obama signalled the need for further debate about Florida's Republican-backed and hugely permissive "Stand Your Ground" gun laws, which have seen the number of "justifiable homicides" from self-defence shootings almost triple since it was introduced in 2005.

Even as the president was speaking, protests were growing over the failure of police to arrest Zimmerman.

In Miami, hundreds of schoolchildren walked out of classes in protest, chanting: "I am Trayvon Martin." An online petition has attracted nearly 1.5 million signatures. Pro-testers say it was unacceptable for Zimmerman to attack an unarmed teenager he had been told by police not to follow.

In his remarks, Obama appeared to suggest that "Stand Your Ground" should be reviewed.

"I think every parent in America should be able to under-stand why it is absolutely imperative to investigate every aspect of this and that every-body pulls together - federal, state and local - to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened," he said. "I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen.

"And that means we examine the laws, the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident."

Zimmerman's whereabouts is unknown. His father has denied that he is racist, and says that Zimmerman's mother is His-panic, and so he is also of an ethnic minority background.

And a reaction to that statement from the President...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/2 ... 76659.html

Newt Gingrich: Obama's Trayvon Martin Statement 'Disgraceful'

Republican hopeful Newt Gingrich slammed Barack Obama on Friday, saying the president's remarks about the fatal February shooting of Trayvon Martin were "disgraceful."

President Barack Obama addressed Martin's death during a Rose Garden appearance earlier Friday, framing the tragedy in personal terms by saying, "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." Gingrich responded to Obama's remarks during a "Hannity Radio" interview:

What the president said, in a sense, is disgraceful. It’s not a question of who that young man looked like. Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified no matter what the ethnic background.

Is the president suggesting that if it had been a white who had been shot, that would be OK because it didn’t look like him. That’s just nonsense dividing this country up. It is a tragedy this young man was shot. It would have been a tragedy if he had been Puerto Rican or Cuban or if he had been white or if he had been Asian American of if he’d been a Native American. At some point, we ought to talk about being Americans. When things go wrong to an American, it is sad for all Americans. Trying to turn it into a racial issue is fundamentally wrong. I really find it appalling.

Gingrich's comments came amid boiling public outrage over the death of Martin -- an unarmed, 17-year-old African American shot by a volunteer neighborhood watchman. The former House speaker commented on the shooting Thursday during an interview with CNN's Piers Morgan, calling it a "tragedy."

[Cat-Scratch]

No. I said "if." Cat said the man was shot in the back. The only conclusion I jumped to was that this may not be what it has been painted to be. That's different than offering a fact (shot in the back). All I asked for was a link to some source that could be reliably trusted that said that was so.

Did I give you a reliably trusted source(s)?

Just for further contrast, the radio station was CFRB, the radio personality was John Downs.

[Stephen Day]

No. I said "if." Cat said the man was shot in the back. The only conclusion I jumped to was that this may not be what it has been painted to be. That's different than offering a fact (shot in the back). All I asked for was a link to some source that could be reliably trusted that said that was so.

Fair enough then.

[Cat-Scratch]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/19/2 ... i-and.html

Grand jury to probe Trayvon Martin killing

Mounting pressure in Trayvon Martin case succeeds in prompting a federal probe as well as an investigation by a state grand jury.

A grand jury will look into the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, Seminole County State Attorney Norm Wolfinger said Tuesday.

“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” said Wolfinger in a statement released Tuesday morning. “That is why I directed the expeditious review of the investigation which was delivered by the Sanford Police Department one week ago today….I will also be utilizing the investigative resources of the Seminole County Grand Jury which will be called to session on Tuesday, April 10, 2012.’’

Wolfinger, whose office has been reviewing the case since last week, asked for patience from the public and said his office will conduct “a thorough, deliberate, and just review of the facts.”

Wolfinger’s statement followed a decision late Monday by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division and the FBI to investigate the killing of the Miami Gardens teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer.

That announcement coincided with a statement from Florida Gov. Rick Scott asking the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to offer “appropriate resources” in the case.

The federal and state agencies are intervening in what attorneys call a botched investigation into the killing of the Michael Krop Senior High School student, who was killed Feb. 26 in Sanford, a town of 55,000 just north of Orlando. Trayvon, 17, on suspension from school, was staying at his father’s girlfriend’s house when he walked to a nearby a 7-Eleven store to buy candy and iced tea.

George Zimmerman, 28, a neighborhood watch volunteer with a long history of calling in everything from open garage doors to “suspicious characters,” called police to say he had spotted someone who looked drugged, was walking too slowly in the rain, and appeared to be looking at people’s houses. Zimmerman sounded alarmed because the stranger had his hand in his waistband and held something in his other hand.

The unarmed teen was carrying Skittles and a can of Arizona iced tea.

Zimmerman said he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on when Trayvon attacked him from behind as he walked back to his truck, police said. He said he feared for his life and fired the semiautomatic handgun he was licensed to carry because he feared for his life.

“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” the Justice Department said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident. With all federal civil rights crimes, the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids — the highest level of intent in criminal law.

“Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws.”

From the start, Trayvon’s family accused Sanford police of molding the investigation to fit Zimmerman’s account. Several witnesses said they heard cries that sounded like a boy wailing — howling silenced by the crack of gunfire — and were shocked to hear police later portray the cries as Zimmerman’s. One witness said police ignored her repeated phone calls.

The police chief was accused of telling lies big and small in ways that shielded Zimmerman. The family hired attorneys who helped devise a national campaign to demand a federal investigation.

Members of Congress and prominent black clergy members joined the chorus for a federal probe. At a rally outside the Sanford courthouse Monday, students called for Zimmerman’s arrest.

Police Chief Bill Lee told The Miami Herald that he was comfortable that his investigators were fair and thorough.

“I can say very confidently we would welcome any outside entity that wants to come look at what we did,” Lee said last week. “They are welcome to come here and look at it. We have not done anything but conduct a fair and complete investigation.”

He dismissed accusations of irregularities and insisted that investigators found no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman because there was no evidence to disprove his version of events.

The U.S. Community Relations Service will be in Sanford this week to meet with civil rights leaders, community leaders and local law enforcement officials to address tension in the community, the Justice Department announcement said.

[dairydead]

i see both Gingrich and Obama's points in this, i dont think it has to be one or the other. I don't think we can ignore that this was racially motivated, but at the same time we can't use this as a catalyst for further race division

[Cat-Scratch]

People are going to form opinions considering the amount of information that is being presented and how is presented. Not all those opinions are going to be the same more considering that not all information will be known or offered to the public, as per media source after media source.

One fact stands though through it all. Zimmerman shot Martin dead. Never once disputed. No where I've looked.

[Cat-Scratch]

i see both Gingrich and Obama's points in this, i dont think it has to be one or the other. I don't think we can ignore that this was racially motivated, but at the same time we can't use this as a catalyst for further race division

Agreed.