The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[DonDaddyD]

Fuck everyone who says anything about Millar that isn't positive.

Ultimates 1&2 are a couple of the greatest comic series I've read ever.

Wanted was equally awesome, a fantastic concept and wonderfully executed. All the characters were portrayed superbly. What more do you want!?

Civil War, for me suffered because it followed Ultimates 1&2 and for me was very similar.

You know what though? While Loeb writes comics I don't understand how people can find the time to dislike anything else?

[Rockman]

Old Man Logan
The Ultimates
Chosen
Kick-Ass
Marvel: 1985
War Heroes (dunno if it ever finished, but what I read was good)

Old man Logan was really fun, but I think he limited the world a bit by basically having Wolverine be the only superhero still around, and killing blind hawkeye was lame.

The ultimates 1 was awesome, Ultimates 2 was too political. The recent ones have been pretty annoying.

I have not seen chosen.

Kick-Ass, I personally liked the movie better than the book.

Marvel 1985. Really intriguing but I thought it had pacing issues and the ending was weak.

[Rockman]

Fuck everyone who says anything about Millar that isn't positive.

Ultimates 1&2 are a couple of the greatest comic series I've read ever.

Wanted was equally awesome, a fantastic concept and wonderfully executed. All the characters were portrayed superbly. What more do you want!?

Civil War, for me suffered because it followed Ultimates 1&2 and for me was very similar.

You know what though? While Loeb writes comics I don't understand how people can find the time to dislike anything else?

That would be a problem since at the time the characterizations of all MU characters should have been different from the characterization of the Ultimate characters. The biggest complaint people had at the time was the fact that every character seemed to be acting out of character.

[thefourthman]

Old man Logan was really fun, but I think he limited the world a bit by basically having Wolverine be the only superhero still around, and killing blind hawkeye was lame.

The ultimates 1 was awesome, Ultimates 2 was too political. The recent ones have been pretty annoying.

I have not seen chosen.

Kick-Ass, I personally liked the movie better than the book.

Marvel 1985. Really intriguing but I thought it had pacing issues and the ending was weak.

Chosen is an old Dark Horse book where Christ comes back today.
It is currently in trade format from Image as American Jesus Vol. 1

[DonDaddyD]

That would be a problem since at the time the characterizations of all MU characters should have been different from the characterization of the Ultimate characters. The biggest complaint people had at the time was the fact that every character seemed to be acting out of character.

Wasn't that all explained as Wanda's doing.

OK some of the stuff was bizarre, firing the Hulk off planet and cloning Thor and making him an obedient cyborg was wrong.

Spider-Man unmasked.

But how much of that was Millar and how much editorial.

[thefourthman]

Spider-Man unmasked was one of the best things they have done in Spidey since JMS took over. Back In Black was awesome as a result. But like everything else in comics, people didn't like the change and the comic companies found a way to back track it and to get rid of the marriage at the same time. It is the haters that caused One More Day!

[Rockman]

Spider-Man unmasked was one of the best things they have done in Spidey since JMS took over. Back In Black was awesome as a result. But like everything else in comics, people didn't like the change and the comic companies found a way to back track it and to get rid of the marriage at the same time. It is the haters that caused One More Day!

I agree but it should never have been by his own will. It would have been better if Peter had left the pro-reg side and they revealed his identity to the public as a result. Even with JMS trying to explain why Peter would unmask in Amazing Spider-man it never felt like it would be something he would do.

[thefourthman]

I agree but it should never have been by his own will. It would have been better if Peter had left the pro-reg side and they revealed his identity to the public as a result. Even with JMS trying to explain why Peter would unmask in Amazing Spider-man it never felt like it would be something he would do.

I think he did an okay job explaining, however, having recently read the jms stuff I had not read, there was not enough history with Stark to truly make it believable. If they had introduced Stark into the storyline, even a year earlier, it would have been more believable that Stark had Peter's trust and would listen to his argument and act on it.

Plus the way it was done allowed Back in Black to happen. The press conference was one of my absolute favorite moments in comics since I came back. I can still remember JJ falling out. It was the Press conference that didn't make any sense. Him registering and unmasking for the government made sense and eventually could have lead to a Back in Black type situation. The Press Conference was a mechanism to allow that story to progress rapidly as opposed to more organically. JMS's run reads like event after event with no normality for Spidey.

[Rockman]

I think he did an okay job explaining, however, having recently read the jms stuff I had not read, there was not enough history with Stark to truly make it believable. If they had introduced Stark into the storyline, even a year earlier, it would have been more believable that Stark had Peter's trust and would listen to his argument and act on it.

Plus the way it was done allowed Back in Black to happen. The press conference was one of my absolute favorite moments in comics since I came back. I can still remember JJ falling out. It was the Press conference that didn't make any sense. Him registering and unmasking for the government made sense and eventually could have lead to a Back in Black type situation. The Press Conference was a mechanism to allow that story to progress rapidly as opposed to more organically. JMS's run reads like event after event with no normality for Spidey.

I do not think his unmasking made any sense given Spider-man's history.

Gwen was killed because Norman Osborn knew his identity, Mary Jane was targeted by Venom because he knew Pete's identity. I do not think he would ever publically unmask if there was ever a chance that a villain could find his loved ones and kill them or attack them again.

Also I thought the whole Jameson aspect of it was horribly done. I feel that Jameson despite all his hatred of Spider-man, all his hard headed ways towards Peter over the years was always like a kind of surrogate father to Pete. I thought that he should have been upset with himself because he had caused this kid so much grief over the years.

[thefourthman]

I do not think his unmasking made any sense given Spider-man's history.

Gwen was killed because Norman Osborn knew his identity, Mary Jane was targeted by Venom because he knew Pete's identity. I do not think he would ever publically unmask if there was ever a chance that a villain could find his loved ones and kill them or attack them again.

Also I thought the whole Jameson aspect of it was horribly done. I feel that Jameson despite all his hatred of Spider-man, all his hard headed ways towards Peter over the years was always like a kind of surrogate father to Pete. I thought that he should have been upset with himself because he had caused this kid so much grief over the years.

I'm saying Pete wouldn't have/shouldn't have unmasked but registered. The unmasking wasn't needed to make Back In Black happen. It was needed to make Back in Black happen now. I believe given another year with Stark as his mentor, we would have believed that Peter would register and Back in Black would have to be built up with a villain (probably Norman) getting the info and using it.

JJ hated Spider-Man with all his being. Ultimate JJ did just what you said, but regular JJ believed that Spidey was a menace and because he felt like a Surrogate father to Peter would hate Peter as an extension for betraying him.

[MoneyMelon]

It's a seperate universe. If he wanted to, he could make them all villains. Who cares. That's what made the Ultimate U. special early on. It was fresh, and anyone could be anything. Ultimatizations were interesting.

Now it feels just like the 616, and seems pointless to me.

Agreed.

[MoneyMelon]

Mark Millar is usually pretty decent when he isn't writing something in the 616 Universe.

I thought Wanted was so-so

The movie is easily one of the worst films I've ever seen, though.

[Rockman]

I'm saying Pete wouldn't have/shouldn't have unmasked but registered. The unmasking wasn't needed to make Back In Black happen. It was needed to make Back in Black happen now. I believe given another year with Stark as his mentor, we would have believed that Peter would register and Back in Black would have to be built up with a villain (probably Norman) getting the info and using it.

JJ hated Spider-Man with all his being. Ultimate JJ did just what you said, but regular JJ believed that Spidey was a menace and because he felt like a Surrogate father to Peter would hate Peter as an extension for betraying him.

I would have liked to see this concept unfold. To see them eventually reconciling when JJJ realizes how much personal sacrifice Peter had to go through and to realize that his actions in the past only added to that.

[HNutz]

I've only seen the movie, which I didn't care for, and decided I didn't need to waste my time or money on the book.

The movie just seems inspired by the book, as it deviates a LOT after the initial setup (maybe the first 2 issues?). It'd be like not wanting to read Superman if they made the movie with Lex as a government agent, Superman not being able to fly and fighting a giant mechanical spider.

Yeah, ones from the mainstream MU. It's nice if they had even a remote semblance to the originals.

It's a seperate universe. If he wanted to, he could make them all villains. Who cares. That's what made the Ultimate U. special early on. It was fresh, and anyone could be anything. Ultimatizations were interesting.

Now it feels just like the 616, and seems pointless to me.

That's what I liked about it originally. Wolverine hooking up with Jean. Cyclops joining the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Storm and Beast getting together. Etc.

But then they took some of the originality out of it and made it too similar to the 616, IMO.

Civil War, for me suffered because it followed Ultimates 1&2 and for me was very similar.

From what I've heard, Millar originally intended Civil War to take place in the Ultimate Universe, which might have something to do with that.

I think he did an okay job explaining, however, having recently read the jms stuff I had not read, there was not enough history with Stark to truly make it believable. If they had introduced Stark into the storyline, even a year earlier, it would have been more believable that Stark had Peter's trust and would listen to his argument and act on it.

Plus the way it was done allowed Back in Black to happen. The press conference was one of my absolute favorite moments in comics since I came back. I can still remember JJ falling out. It was the Press conference that didn't make any sense. Him registering and unmasking for the government made sense and eventually could have lead to a Back in Black type situation. The Press Conference was a mechanism to allow that story to progress rapidly as opposed to more organically. JMS's run reads like event after event with no normality for Spidey.

I do not think his unmasking made any sense given Spider-man's history.

Gwen was killed because Norman Osborn knew his identity, Mary Jane was targeted by Venom because he knew Pete's identity. I do not think he would ever publically unmask if there was ever a chance that a villain could find his loved ones and kill them or attack them again.

Also I thought the whole Jameson aspect of it was horribly done. I feel that Jameson despite all his hatred of Spider-man, all his hard headed ways towards Peter over the years was always like a kind of surrogate father to Pete. I thought that he should have been upset with himself because he had caused this kid so much grief over the years.

Yeah, while the press conference made for an interesting moment (and got folks talking, which may have sold more books), it just didn't make sense to me. After all the folks that have gotten hurt because they were close to Spider-Man (Gwen got killed, MJ's been attacked/gone after TONS of times, the Daily Bugle's been attacked, etc.), it's just bizarre. Living in Avengers Tower would keep MJ and Aunt May safe, but what about everyone else?

Besides, how does "register and tell the government who you are" translate to "hold a press conference and tell the world"? I'd MUCH prefer something like what was suggested earlier, Norman Osborn getting ahold of that info and using it to unleash hell.

[Chris]

That's what I liked about it originally. Wolverine hooking up with Jean. Cyclops joining the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Storm and Beast getting together. Etc.

But then they took some of the originality out of it and made it too similar to the 616, IMO.

Yeah.