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When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

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When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Jack Burton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:25 am

So this is something that kind of surprised me reading Fantastic Four #9.

Back in the day John Byrne established Sue met Reed when she was 12 and he was a 19 year old freshman. Sue fell in love with him then and just couldn't wait to be old enough to be with him.

Sometimes writers got confused and even put Reed as a grad Student but and Sue at 15.

I've been reading FF straight more or less for 23 years and this little nugget of history has always bothered me on it's creepiness/ick factor. It had a whole Lolita vibe I didn't like.

Turns out it bothered Matt Fraction and Tom Breevort too. So they made Sue older when she and Reed met. She's around the same age as Ben and Reed(give or take a year or two).

I was happy to see them fix that. What surprised me was the letter in #9 from a guy who didn't like that change to continuity. I'm a comic fan and I get the no like change attitude from fans but on this one? That a good retcon.

I'm surprised anyone had a problem with it.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Spektre » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:49 am

You shouldn't be surprised.

Retcons are NEVER acceptable.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:03 am

Jack Burton wrote:So this is something that kind of surprised me reading Fantastic Four #9.

Back in the day John Byrne established Sue met Reed when she was 12 and he was a 19 year old freshman. Sue fell in love with him then and just couldn't wait to be old enough to be with him.

Sometimes writers got confused and even put Reed as a grad Student but and Sue at 15.

I've been reading FF straight more or less for 23 years and this little nugget of history has always bothered me on it's creepiness/ick factor. It had a whole Lolita vibe I didn't like.

Turns out it bothered Matt Fraction and Tom Breevort too. So they made Sue older when she and Reed met. She's around the same age as Ben and Reed(give or take a year or two).

I was happy to see them fix that. What surprised me was the letter in #9 from a guy who didn't like that change to continuity. I'm a comic fan and I get the no like change attitude from fans but on this one? That a good retcon.

I'm surprised anyone had a problem with it.


Agreed. This is a pretty perfect example of when retcons are necessary. I mean, Reed Richards met Nick Fury in WW2. That HAD to be retconned because it makes no sense otherwise. You figure even if Reed cheated his way into the and was 16 when they met (unlikely as Reed was a major), that would make Reed 84 assuming his encounter with Fury was in '45. It's more likely that he would be in his 90s currently. I think that was retconned as well - which was a smart mov of course.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Jack Burton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:18 am

syxxpakk wrote:
Agreed. This is a pretty perfect example of when retcons are necessary. I mean, Reed Richards met Nick Fury in WW2. That HAD to be retconned because it makes no sense otherwise. You figure even if Reed cheated his way into the and was 16 when they met (unlikely as Reed was a major), that would make Reed 84 assuming his encounter with Fury was in '45. It's more likely that he would be in his 90s currently. I think that was retconned as well - which was a smart mov of course.


Exactly. Now retcons can really suck but they aren't always bad.

Sometimes they are really needed. Especially the way the big two doesn't age their heroes in real time.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Chesscub » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:21 am

Which war did Tony Stark get the shrapnel wound in? :-D

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Punchy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:31 am

Chesscub wrote:Which war did Tony Stark get the shrapnel wound in? :-D


Extremis updated it to the First Gulf War, but by now it's probably the Second Gulf War!

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Punchy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:32 am

Spektre wrote:You shouldn't be surprised.

Retcons are NEVER acceptable.


So making a character not a quasi-paedophile is unacceptable?

Oooookay.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby outsider » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:33 am

I was fine with Byrne's retcon for Hippolyta being the Post-Crisis WWII Wonder Woman. :smt102
And while I was mostly okay with the later retcon of Donna Troy being an embodiment of the multiverse, I felt a simpler retcon could have worked (Ted Grant gets Polly pregnant, she leaves active duty for Paradise Island and raises Donna). BOOM - now fuck you pay me.
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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby syxxpakk » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:34 am

Chesscub wrote:Which war did Tony Stark get the shrapnel wound in? :-D


Vietnam. Same thing as Reed applies here. Retconning it was the only thing to do.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Punchy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:34 am

outsider wrote:I was fine with Byrne's retcon for Hippolyta being the Post-Crisis WWII Wonder Woman. :smt102
And while I was mostly okay with the later retcon of Donna Troy being an embodiment of the multiverse, I felt a simpler retcon could have worked (Ted Grant gets Polly pregnant, she leaves active duty for Paradise Island and raises Donna). BOOM - now fuck you pay me.


Why would they pay you when they already got rid of the problem by erasing Donna Troy from existence? :P

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby outsider » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:34 am

Punchy wrote:
So making a character not a quasi-paedophile is unacceptable?

Oooookay.
Wait, did Reed hit that when Sue was underage?

7 years is a negligible difference once both are over the age of 20.
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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby outsider » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:35 am

Punchy wrote:
Why would they pay you when they already got rid of the problem by erasing Donna Troy from existence? :P
:smt102 I still have books with her in them. :smt102
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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Punchy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:36 am

outsider wrote: :smt102 I still have books with her in them. :smt102


Yeah, but I don't think DC have any plans to do anything with her ever again.

She's too confusing, better to just ignore it.

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby Jack Burton » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:37 am

Punchy wrote:
So making a character not a quasi-paedophile is unacceptable?

Oooookay.


I don't get it either. Even if it was just a crush on Sue's part having Reed marry somone he can remember meeting when she was a little girl and he was an adult is creepy.

I've always ignored that bit and aged Sue up a bit.

Sue suddenly having a doctorate is another matter.......

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Re: When a retcon isn't a bad thing.

Postby outsider » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:38 am

Punchy wrote:
Yeah, but I don't think DC have any plans to do anything with her ever again.

She's too confusing, better to just ignore it.
Eh, I'm okay with that, if that's the case.
But plans change. Just ask Vibe. Or Spider-Woman.
"Ever again" is a long time.

/baitnottaken'd :P
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