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White people, please explain pt. 2

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User avatar

Food Eater lad

cheese

Postby Food Eater lad » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:12 pm

Regulator wrote:
What is your gain from rationalizing anything to do with slavery?



I am not rationalizing anything. Just showing how blaming white people and only white people for slavery is sloppy history. Everyone is to blame.

In fact, historically, most people that were enslaved were enslaved by members of their own race!
User avatar

Lord Simian

The Lord of the Monkeys

Postby Lord Simian » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:49 pm

Food Eater lad wrote:

I am not rationalizing anything. Just showing how blaming white people and only white people for slavery is sloppy history. Everyone is to blame.

In fact, historically, most people that were enslaved were enslaved by members of their own race!


I guess the confusion comes in because nowhere in Stephen's post did he say anything like that...
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:53 pm

Food Eater lad wrote:

And who do you think Musa forced to mine all that gold?


And while true, how does that prove that your statement that, "all of Musa I's weath" came from slavery?
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:54 pm

Lord Simian wrote:
I guess the confusion comes in because nowhere in Stephen's post did he say anything like that...


No, in fact, I did not.

That only point I've been making with you is that Food Eater lad's statement that all of Musa I's wealth came from slavery is in fact not true. I haven't been making any other argument at all.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:00 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
No, in fact, I did not.

That only point I've been making with you is that your statement that all of Musa I's wealth came from slavery is in fact not true. I haven't been making any other argument at all.


As for why I originally brought up the Empire of Mali, it was to point out a civilization that wasn't a "winterfolk" one that also added to advances in the world's knowledge. If you thought I was somehow making any sort of argument or point about slavery then I apologize for giving you that impression. Having said that though, I really don't see how you jumped to that conclusion.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:08 pm

I think what Stephen is trying to say is that Mali, despite being Summer Folk, had a thriving slave trade that's still envied today.
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:08 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:I think what Stephen is trying to say is that Mali, despite being Summer Folk, had a thriving slave trade that's still envied today.


You're not helping. :P
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:30 pm

Do you guys seriously not believe that climate extremes could create different qualities in groups of people? Pretend like everyone is some tanned race, separate them in extreme conditions for thousands of years, and expect them to be on the same page? That's ridiculous.

And honestly, going back to the points made in the video, it is white civilizations being flooded with non-white immigrants 'hoping to make a better life for themselves'. So why, if our civilization isn't in some way better, is this statement accepted?
User avatar

Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:37 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:Do you guys seriously not believe that climate extremes could create different qualities in groups of people? Pretend like everyone is some tanned race, separate them in extreme conditions for thousands of years, and expect them to be on the same page? That's ridiculous.

And honestly, going back to the points made in the video, it is white civilizations being flooded with non-white immigrants 'hoping to make a better life for themselves'. So why, if our civilization isn't in some way better, is this statement accepted?


Of course different climates make differences in people, I don't see anyone making the argument at all that that isn't true. The problem comes when the argument shifts to saying that those differences make one type of people more capable of advancing civilization. All I've been pointing out is that history, and all of the different empires and nations that have come and gone over the course of time, pretty much proves that it isn't true.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:52 pm

Well there are exceptions to the rule, always. I just think we pretty much HAD to push harder, and that may have created a drive in us that kept that going past any genuine need.

I also think that 'summer people' were doing just fine. They reached a point where they could maintain their civilizations and be content and just stuck with that. We kinda fucked that up, even for other white groups.
User avatar

S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:30 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:Do you guys seriously not believe that climate extremes could create different qualities in groups of people? Pretend like everyone is some tanned race, separate them in extreme conditions for thousands of years, and expect them to be on the same page? That's ridiculous.

And honestly, going back to the points made in the video, it is white civilizations being flooded with non-white immigrants 'hoping to make a better life for themselves'. So why, if our civilization isn't in some way better, is this statement accepted?


I think that claiming that the entirety of human history can be summed up by dividing people into "winterfolk" and "summerfolk" is so absurdly simplistic that it can't possibly be a serious position.

PDH

penile prisoner

Postby PDH » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:01 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I think that claiming that the entirety of human history can be summed up by dividing people into "winterfolk" and "summerfolk" is so absurdly simplistic that it can't possibly be a serious position.


Pretty much. I mean, summing it up as 'genetics did it' is absurdly simplistic and that's about a hundred times better than 'climate did it.' The world that we see is not the world that we would expect to see if this theory is true.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:15 pm

Well we live in a multicultural world now where travel and relocation is far easier. I think the summer/winter thing comes from times before any of us were traveling at all. Genetic differences in animals are far more drastic, and accepted without question. 'Humans are animals' is also accepted until a topic like this pops up.
User avatar

Food Eater lad

cheese

Postby Food Eater lad » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:13 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
And while true, how does that prove that your statement that, "all of Musa I's weath" came from slavery?



Cause his slaves mined his gold, and he sold slaves. I am sure he had a lucrative fruit vending service employed by well paid union workers, but that I can't verify that.
User avatar

muddyglass

dr. strangelove

Postby muddyglass » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:33 pm

Food Eater lad wrote:

I am not rationalizing anything. Just showing how blaming white people and only white people for slavery is sloppy history. Everyone is to blame.

In fact, historically, most people that were enslaved were enslaved by members of their own race!


nobody says that black people should not rationalize slavery. nobody says that asian people should not rationalize slavery.

but when white people (and only white people) rationalize slavery, then they are labeled racist klansmen who want to enslave all the brown summer-people.

they say that they're "anti-racist," but what they really are, is anti-white. "anti-racist" is a code word for "anti-white."

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