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[muddyglass]

Except the field of Mathematics could only truly flourish in an environment that was afforded by things like democracy, freedom of education and rule of law to protect the rights of individuals. That small handful of people of all skin tones aren't welcome to work on their Math in the Arab world, they do that research mostly in Europe don't they?

What did the Arabs do with their arithmetic? Did they invent mills or internal combustion machines? Did they develop manufacturing or do they just play technological catch up with other cultures who took the Arab contribution to Math and developed it's potential far beyond their wildest dreams?

i don't know where you are getting your history from, but at the time the arab mathematicians "did their thing," europe was in worse shape as far as mathematical/scientific research is concerned. there was a span of several hundred years to almost a thousand years between the arab contributions i was referring to and the industrial revolution that brought us the internal combustion engine! most people who do work in mathematics recognize the cumulative nature of mathematics and how much time and effort is really necessary for mathematics to bear fruit in the real world, especially if mass communication and public education was unavailable at the time.

you glorify the romans, but you don't acknowledge the arabs who carried the torch after the decline of the romans. the argument you wrote in your last paragraph is just silly. it would be absurd for me to write in any seriousness, "what did the romans do with their dysfunctional arithmetic? did they invent mills or internal combustion machines?" people sometimes feel like they're brilliant looking in hindsight, but looking forward is another matter. how many engineering applications of pure mathematics have you come up with given the benefit of having all of this mathematics and science from the ancient world spoonfed to you when you were in school? today, as well as in the ancient world, only a small handful of people actually make significant contributions to this body of knowledge.

[False Prophet]

Goddamn Dark Age. Why did it have to be so "dark" and unwelcoming to the summer people?

[muddyglass]

In the West a Tan is a sign of Affluence because it means that one has enough money to travel to exotic locals. In the East, a Tan is a sign of Poverty because it means one works outside performing manual labour. So what do you think?

Nobody says Summer people mess things up but in the grand scheme of things, Summer people want Winter lifestyles with all the technology and personal freedoms and Winter people want Summer culture for food and entertainment. Those aren't equal contributions to the development of a Modern Society.

so, are you claiming all the significant beneficial contributions from chinese culture are/were done by those from the north parts of china?

Not much of an incentive when some fire, a tent and warm blankets are enough, is it?

and can the same not be said of those surviving winter elsewhere?

Italy doesn't have gentler Winters because of all it's Mountain Regions inland, away from the coast. There's lots of Ski resorts in Italy and some areas get as cold as Canada in the Winter. That's the difference between them and Greece and why the Romans ultimately conquered them.

i could imagine the mountainous parts of northern europe receiving comparably severe winters as the mountainous parts of italy. however, the non-mountainous parts of northern europe should have worse winters than the non-mountainous parts of italy just because of physics and the latitudes we're talking about here.

There are no mysteries as I have just pointed out. Just your willingness to ignore and deliberately misconstrue my argument in order to protect your ego so it doesn't have to admit it has been victimized by the Progressive Socialist Indoctrination that's been in full swing since the 70's.

i'm not even sure how i'm supposed to respond to this!

[Stephen Day]

Arabs rule the desert, China and Rome rule the World.

Here's a map of the Islamic Empire at it's height:



Here's a map of the Roman Empire at it's height:



Notice how the Roman Empire really isn't that much bigger.

[bkthomson]

Wow this thread became much more interesting and yet as dull as my Western history in college

[Stephen Day]

Now this great African empire you mentioned, collapsed under it's own weight and became extinct before Britain(Rome spin-off) made the entire continent their bitch. By comparison, is the the architecture in Washington DC, London, Paris and Berlin inspired by Roman or Egyptian cultures?

The Roman Empire also collapsed under it's own weight though, so I fail to see your point.

As for the Empire of Mali, it lasted from 1230 to 1600, so it's not insignificant. Also the University of Timbuktu, which was founded by Musa I, the manuscripts of which still exist today. These manuscripts include writings on the subject of Mathematics and astronomy and are still considered so valuable by scholars today that the sites where they are held have been declared a UNESCO World Heritage site.

[Stephen Day]

Wow this thread became much more interesting and yet as dull as my Western history in college

Sit down, shut up and be educated.

[Cernunnos]

Sometimes I sit in my ebony tower and feel sickened at the plight and marginalization of you poor, pigment-challenged bastards. It's no wonder you have to resort to the music of Ke$ha and Coldplay as an outlet for your socioeconomic frustration. /blackguilt

[muddyglass]

Here's a map of the Islamic Empire at it's height:



Here's a map of the Roman Empire at it's height:



Notice how the Roman Empire really isn't that much bigger.

however, the roman empire contains all the "winter" countries, so there's nothing contradictory here, prof. progressive socialist indoctrinator.

[Keb]

"Ancient Aliens" are my religion, motherfucker*.

If you want some respect for yours, you better start showing some for mine.





*I apologize to the Mods if that was out of line, I won't make a habit of it.

From my understanding, this is what you've been demanding in the thread yet you fail to show it to others. You claim I've been "brainwashed" by "progressive socialism" when there are no theories informing my opinion but life experiences, which I believe hold more weight than reading someone else's words in a book. On top of that, when others counter your obtuse and misinformed arguments, you respond by claiming that they too have been "brainwashed" or that they "misconstrue your argument to protect their ego" when in fact your narrowly-designed arguments do that same thing. Now that you've been backed into a corner, you're crying that you've been victimized because someone doesn't respect your "religion" or whatever.

You display the exact same flawed rhetoric as the video in the OP. In the video, these people want to be hailed and lauded as wonderful for their positive contributions when they are not willing to own up to the negative contributions. This compassion you claim the whites have for whatever reason does not seem apparent because in this case they're actually failing to show that compassion to understand. You want to show someone compassion, you understand their situation first. You want respect, try understanding the person whose respect you want.

[muddyglass]

From my understanding, this is what you've been demanding in the thread yet you fail to show it to others. You claim I've been "brainwashed" by "progressive socialism" when there are no theories informing my opinion but life experiences, which I believe hold more weight than reading someone else's words in a book. On top of that, when others counter your obtuse and misinformed arguments, you respond by claiming that they too have been "brainwashed" or that they "misconstrue your argument to protect their ego" when in fact your narrowly-designed arguments do that same thing. Now that you've been backed into a corner, you're crying that you've been victimized because someone doesn't respect your "religion" or whatever.

You display the exact same flawed rhetoric as the video in the OP. In the video, these people want to be hailed and lauded as wonderful for their positive contributions when they are not willing to own up to the negative contributions. This compassion you claim the whites have for whatever reason does not seem apparent because in this case they're actually failing to show that compassion to understand. You want to show someone compassion, you understand their situation first. You want respect, try understanding the person whose respect you want.

each party must be willing to walk a mile in the snow in the other man's shoes. doing so during the summer is just too easy. mutual respect is thus only born in the winter of our discontent.

[Ntikrst]

i don't know where you are getting your history from, but at the time the arab mathematicians "did their thing," europe was in worse shape as far as mathematical/scientific research is concerned. there was a span of several hundred years to almost a thousand years between the arab contributions i was referring to and the industrial revolution that brought us the internal combustion engine!

Wait a minute, I mentioned mills before internal combustion. Like I said, what technology did Arabs develop with their math and how far did they advance that technology?

[Ntikrst]

so, are you claiming all the significant beneficial contributions from chinese culture are/were done by those from the north parts of china?

I wouldn't say that's an accurate interpretation.

and can the same not be said of those surviving winter elsewhere?

After they got a taste of Roman life, Europe eventually imitated it didn't they? Obviously then, Tents and Campfires weren't enough anymore.

i could imagine the mountainous parts of northern europe receiving comparably severe winters as the mountainous parts of italy. however, the non-mountainous parts of northern europe should have worse winters than the non-mountainous parts of italy just because of physics and the latitudes we're talking about here.

The fact is, Winter makes forges practical. Things like that lead to better metallurgy and engineering. People have to work together because it's easy to die from exposure for weeks on end and there's not much to eat so agriculture and storage have to be more efficient. It's a type of incentive Equatorial cultures never had and that's why they have been playing catch up after the industrial revolution.

[Ntikrst]

Here's a map of the Islamic Empire at it's height:



Here's a map of the Roman Empire at it's height:



Notice how the Roman Empire really isn't that much bigger.

Do you notice the Influence Rome had on Western Civilization?

[Ntikrst]

The Roman Empire also collapsed under it's own weight though, so I fail to see your point.

Right...because after Rome fell we never saw the like again anywhere else in the world. No empire ever sought to emulate their architecture, their governing principals or their academic knowledge.

Rome and Atlantis, both lost to the ages.