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So Who Are The Good & Acceptable Cheesecake Artists?

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The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:08 pm

Okay, now lets actually talk, since we sort of have a list.

So what is the difference between acceptable cheesecake artwork and something consider over sexualised artwork?

Pink Orchid started with some interesting statements. But where is the line or is there none? :smt102
User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:13 am

Let's keep this to comic books, otherwise Vargas, Earl Moran, Olivia De Berardinis, Vaughn Bass, etc. will dominate.

Adam Hughes - the master of comic cheesecake.
Frank Cho - he's very good but enough with the jungle/cave women
Dave Stevens - the former master who is missed greatly
Art Adams - he draws a pretty lady but he's too superhero-y for this list
Joe Linsner - one trick pony (and not as good as most of these listed) - not accepted
Art Adams - putting him on your list twice doesn't change my above comment
Terry Dodson - the current #2. Just the right mix of beauty and titillation
Amanda Conners - A wonderful artist - absolutely belongs on this list
Joe Balent - His focus always seemed on the breasts, not the comic art - not accepted
Milo Manara - porn artist. Not accepted
Greg Land - porn tracer. Not accepted
Jim Silke - hell yeah! Rascals is accepted.
J Scott Campbell - if the topic was on deformed cheesecake anatomy, then yes, otherwise, no.
Budd Root - He draws Cavewoman nice enough to be included
Mark Heike - underappreciated. He's in.
Wally Wood - How dare you not have him in the initial list!! He's a GOD!
Matt Baker - See Wally Wood comment
Bob Oksner - Deserves inclusion on this list
Rick Mays - meh, hardly qualifies as a comic artist let alone cheesecake
Guillam March - Great artist, draws a pretty lady.

A few more to add...
Milton Caniff
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Dan Decarlo
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Will Eisner
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Will Elder
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User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:32 am

The Old Doctor wrote:So what is the difference between acceptable cheesecake artwork and something consider over sexualised artwork?


Rule #1: Art will always be in the eye of the beholder.

Now that that is out of the way, let's also establish that any of the above artists are fully capable of drawing outright porn for porn's sake. Many are also capable of actual graphic story-telling.

Someone like Jim Balent... Tits & ass are the main focus
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You have look at this for a while to realize she's holding stolen jewels (despite them glowing)
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And while it is utterly unfair to compare Balent with Adam Hughes, yes, the eyes are drawn to the breasts, but equally so to the eyes.
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Supergirl is so freaking cute and desirable (but in a "I want to hold your hand" way, not in a "I want to slobber all over you" way.
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This one is pure cheesecake and it's just an outline of a leg! :lol:
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I guess maybe the line is somewhere between "Do you want to fuck her" or "Do you want to read a story about her".
User avatar

Chessack

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby Chessack » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:04 am

To me, I think two big elements are anatomical exaggeration and pose impossibility.

By that I mean, if the female's body is absurdly exaggerated, with huge watermelon breasts or that kind of thing, or wearing the costume in a way that it would CLEARLY fall off, nipples barely covered, that sort of thing, then that is the "unacceptable" kind.

And if we are talking about a pose where the character is contorted in such a way as to exaggerate the female parts, e.g., punching someone while sticking her breasts and ass out as far as they go in a completely preposterous position, then again, we are talking unacceptable.

Now if you are talking about drawing a reasonable rendition of a sexy character like Wonder Woman, but in a realistic pose, then I don't have a problem with it. Perez did this for WW many times back in the day. Gary Frank did this with Matrix Supergirl. Michael Lark currently does it with Forever in Lazarus.

The question is, does the character look sexy and beautiful without it being exploitative? Yes there is a way to do one without the other.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:01 am

Amoebas wrote:Let's keep this to comic books, otherwise Vargas, Earl Moran, Olivia De Berardinis, Vaughn Bass, etc. will dominate.

Adam Hughes - the master of comic cheesecake.
Frank Cho - he's very good but enough with the jungle/cave women
Dave Stevens - the former master who is missed greatly
Art Adams - he draws a pretty lady but he's too superhero-y for this list
Joe Linsner - one trick pony (and not as good as most of these listed) - not accepted
Art Adams - putting him on your list twice doesn't change my above comment
Terry Dodson - the current #2. Just the right mix of beauty and titillation
Amanda Conners - A wonderful artist - absolutely belongs on this list
Joe Balent - His focus always seemed on the breasts, not the comic art - not accepted
Milo Manara - porn artist. Not accepted
Greg Land - porn tracer. Not accepted
Jim Silke - hell yeah! Rascals is accepted.
J Scott Campbell - if the topic was on deformed cheesecake anatomy, then yes, otherwise, no.
Budd Root - He draws Cavewoman nice enough to be included
Mark Heike - underappreciated. He's in.
Wally Wood - How dare you not have him in the initial list!! He's a GOD!
Matt Baker - See Wally Wood comment
Bob Oksner - Deserves inclusion on this list

Rick Mays - meh, hardly qualifies as a comic artist let alone cheesecake
Guillam March - Great artist, draws a pretty lady.

A few more to add...
Milton Caniff
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Dan Decarlo
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Will Eisner
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Will Elder
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I was rushing to make the question understood about what is and is not ... the above.

Wow... Caniff has some porno dresses there. :-D

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:03 am

Amoebas wrote:
Rule #1: Art will always be in the eye of the beholder.

Now that that is out of the way, let's also establish that any of the above artists are fully capable of drawing outright porn for porn's sake. Many are also capable of actual graphic story-telling.

Someone like Jim Balent... Tits & ass are the main focus
Image
You have look at this for a while to realize she's holding stolen jewels (despite them glowing)
Image

And while it is utterly unfair to compare Balent with Adam Hughes, yes, the eyes are drawn to the breasts, but equally so to the eyes.
Image

Supergirl is so freaking cute and desirable (but in a "I want to hold your hand" way, not in a "I want to slobber all over you" way.
Image

This one is pure cheesecake and it's just an outline of a leg! :lol:
Image

I guess maybe the line is somewhere between "Do you want to fuck her" or "Do you want to read a story about her".


Good points, but the last... doesn't work. The things I'd do to Supergirl and Catwoman... 'cause I thought both ways. :oops:

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:08 am

Chessack wrote:To me, I think two big elements are anatomical exaggeration and pose impossibility.

By that I mean, if the female's body is absurdly exaggerated, with huge watermelon breasts or that kind of thing, or wearing the costume in a way that it would CLEARLY fall off, nipples barely covered, that sort of thing, then that is the "unacceptable" kind.

And if we are talking about a pose where the character is contorted in such a way as to exaggerate the female parts, e.g., punching someone while sticking her breasts and ass out as far as they go in a completely preposterous position, then again, we are talking unacceptable.

Now if you are talking about drawing a reasonable rendition of a sexy character like Wonder Woman, but in a realistic pose, then I don't have a problem with it. Perez did this for WW many times back in the day. Gary Frank did this with Matrix Supergirl. Michael Lark currently does it with Forever in Lazarus.

The question is, does the character look sexy and beautiful without it being exploitative? Yes there is a way to do one without the other.


Gary Frank is on my list, which I forgot to list him. :oops:

I think both you and Amoebas have brought the point forward, that it really is about the level of sexuality complete with the possible tease element. There's a line and some pass over it. I guess kind of like asking yourself, what do you think you do not want your wife or girlfriend catch you looking at?

So we have a long list of comic artists (and beyond) that fit well within the cheescake/good girl artwork and the over the line to being porno artwork.

Oh, Amoebas, do not look at any recent Tarot, Witch of the Black Rose comics... he's focusing on more than just boobs and I am not talking about eyes.
User avatar

Pink_Orchid

The Virgin Connie Swail

Postby Pink_Orchid » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:53 pm

Agreed that it is in the eye of the beholder. My vote is still Matt Baker. He made women look gorgeous and fierce without ridiculous proportions or anatomical impossibilities. When looking at the art you admire the whole image and aren't blinded by just one part.

No balloon boobs, spaghetti spine, broken back, missing pelvis, or my least favorite trend the stupid wonder wedge. And, gasp, their costumes aren't just colored skin. They are wearing fabric.

Lee Elias on Black Cat
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Tarpe Mills on Miss Fury
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Lily Renee on Senorita Rio
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The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:02 pm

Pink_Orchid wrote:Agreed that it is in the eye of the beholder. My vote is still Matt Baker. He made women look gorgeous and fierce without ridiculous proportions or anatomical impossibilities. When looking at the art you admire the whole image and aren't blinded by just one part.

No balloon boobs, spaghetti spine, broken back, missing pelvis, or my least favorite trend the stupid wonder wedge. And, gasp, their costumes aren't just colored skin. They are wearing fabric.

Lee Elias on Black Cat
Image

Tarpe Mills on Miss Fury
Image

Lily Renee on Senorita Rio
Image


I love Adam Hughes stuff as he seems to do this as well as the humor he injects with pin-ups. He, Dave Stevens and Frank Cho plus Terry Dodson are all very similar in style to my eye. In a general sense. Amanda Conner brings the funny too.

HAHA, they all can also draw feet, unlike Rob Liefeld.

One artist who did some nice cheesecake/porn I like/liked is Jason Pearson. Panda was a ton of fun to see not only for the outrageous figure, but the facial expressions were awesome too.

Mike Deodata is kind of what you described Pink, but I like his stuff too though borderline.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:10 pm

So here's a list we've compiled.

Adam Hughes
Frank Cho
Dave Stevens
Art Adams
Joe Linsner
Art Adams
Terry Dodson
Amanda Conners
Joe Balent
Milo Manara
Greg Land
Jim Silke
J. Scott Campbell
Budd Root
Mark Heike
Wally Wood
Joe Madureira
Matt Baker
Vargas
Bob Oksner
Rick Mays
Guillem March
Milton Caniff
Dan Decarlo
Will Eisner
Will Elder
Gary Frank
Michael Lark
George Perez
Lee Elias
Tarpe Mills
Lily Renee
Mike Deodata
Jason Pearson
Frank Thorne
Chris Bachalo

I added a few more names to those mentioned in the thread so far.
User avatar

Kurosawa

cheese

Postby Kurosawa » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:21 pm

My list would include:

Wally Wood
Matt Baker
Dave Stevens
Jack Kamen
Amanda Conner
Dick Dillin
Mark Heike
Milton Caniff

And several others who have been mentioned. People like Balent are just not good enough as comics artists for me to list. A great good girl artist has to be a great artist first. There's a lot of good pin-up artists like Jim Lee who are not good comic book artists.
User avatar

Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:48 pm

Gary Frank? George Perez?

Sure they are accomplished artists, but cheesecake artists?

Neal Adams drew a good looking Talia, so I suppose we should include him. John Buscema's Thundra was hot, so let's include him. Gene Colan's Black Widow made my puberty better, so, yup, Gene's in.

Or maybe not.

There's a difference between being able to draw cheesecake and being a cheesecake artist.
User avatar

achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:09 pm

What about the Witchblade guy whose name I can't spell let alone pronounce? I mean if he isn't cheesecake in his art than no one is.
User avatar

Pink_Orchid

The Virgin Connie Swail

Postby Pink_Orchid » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:08 pm

I'd remove Greg Land. He's the example of what not to do.

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:31 pm

Amoebas wrote:Gary Frank? George Perez?

Sure they are accomplished artists, but cheesecake artists?

Neal Adams drew a good looking Talia, so I suppose we should include him. John Buscema's Thundra was hot, so let's include him. Gene Colan's Black Widow made my puberty better, so, yup, Gene's in.

Or maybe not.

There's a difference between being able to draw cheesecake and being a cheesecake artist.


I tossed them on the list since they were mentioned, though not in context. To be honest, I think Gary Frank does and has drawn cheesecake art, but on a more subtle level then most. Consider his Motormouth work, Hulk, etc. to see it.

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Which reminds me, I forgot another name, and similar in qualities - Brian Bolland.

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So, to sum, some can turn it on and off and also be sneaky about it. Good artists are evil that way.

Oh, George Perez -
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Another name could be Frank Frazetta given his Conan covers.

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