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So who's getting Obamacare?

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What will you be doing once Obamacare takes effect?

I will be keeping my current plan.
23
64%
I will be signing up for a new plan under Obamacare.
6
17%
I will be losing my insurance.
1
3%
I don't have insurance now and will continue to not have it.
3
8%
I am a US Senator or major corporation so I am exempt.
3
8%
 
Total votes : 36

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Spektre
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:54 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
There are thousands of examples of the rich oppressing everyone else today. One need only look at the obscene amount of wealth held by a small percentage of the population, and then look at the things that extremely wealthy individuals or corporations do with impunity (like spill oil, dump toxic waste, fund terrorism, employ workers in sweatshops and unsafe working conditions, put dangerous and cancer-causing ingredients in food, hide evidence of harmful nature of their products in order to sell them, etc. etc. etc.) to see the kinds of things that corporations or individuals with money-backed powers do today. Of course, your answer is to say that those things would be disallowed under your philosophy, or that fit individuals could somehow protect themselves from them, but you have no evidence to back that up.


I do not need evidence to back myself up against this claim. This claim is of the form "Prove God exists."

"The proof is all around you. In the trees, the birds, the wonders of nature. Proof of God is a baby's cry, a storms thunder...etc."

You have provided nothing in your answer in the way of A causing B.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:55 pm

habitual wrote:
You have provided zero evidence.

We could talk about things like the Sherman Antitrust Act or the Clayton Act.

Or we could delve further into destroying your fantasy world and talk about Standard Oil, U.S. Steel, AT&T or even MLB in the 20's.

Your entire paradigm is based on a delusion.

Hab


We could also talk about quantum mechanics, the Andromeda Galaxy, beer fermentation, or any other of a number of unrelated topics.

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Image

Me thinks he throws words around he knows not what they mean.

You're simply not connected to reality Hab.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:10 pm

habitual wrote:The President of Spektreland:

Image

Hab


And yes. Everywhere the free market is employed we all get to enjoy RICH CORINTHIAN LEATHER!
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:18 pm

Spektre wrote:
I do not need evidence to back myself up against this claim. This claim is of the form "Prove God exists."

"The proof is all around you. In the trees, the birds, the wonders of nature. Proof of God is a baby's cry, a storms thunder...etc."

You have provided nothing in your answer in the way of A causing B.


The free market = God. :lol:
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby oogy » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:56 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
The free market = God. :lol:

So it is another fairy tale. :P
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:13 pm

So, back to the topic, has anyone tried and succeeded to sign up? I mean actually get through to the company you want to provide your particular plan? I hear lots of reports that it simply isn't working, but I'm unclear if that's for people trying to sign up through the federal site, which apparently was designed by a firm Canada fired for sucking too much, or through the state exchange websites, which if I understand correctly only exist in a few states.

A little more fishing on the web suggests that the state exchanges are doing a "little better" than the federal site, with the caveat that a little better apparently is the difference between being able to bail the Titanic out for a few hours before it sinks, and going straight to the bottom.

Bad site design aside, apparently the back end to the insurance companies almost universally sucks.
Achilles is the kind of evil that hollows out a volcano for a lair, and sends killer robots after his enemies.---Lord Simian

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:51 pm

I signed up enough to find out the prices which sucked and didn't sign up for a plan. Bit the bullet and signed on to pay $600 a month for Amy through my work, hoping to qualify for cheap healthcare through the state for the kids. :(
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:59 pm

achilles wrote:So, back to the topic, has anyone tried and succeeded to sign up? I mean actually get through to the company you want to provide your particular plan? I hear lots of reports that it simply isn't working, but I'm unclear if that's for people trying to sign up through the federal site, which apparently was designed by a firm Canada fired for sucking too much, or through the state exchange websites, which if I understand correctly only exist in a few states.

A little more fishing on the web suggests that the state exchanges are doing a "little better" than the federal site, with the caveat that a little better apparently is the difference between being able to bail the Titanic out for a few hours before it sinks, and going straight to the bottom.

Bad site design aside, apparently the back end to the insurance companies almost universally sucks.


Thank goodness the future of our healthcare is in capable hands. Hopefully someday we will be single payer and thus this imbroglio can be available for all!
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:10 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:I signed up enough to find out the prices which sucked and didn't sign up for a plan. Bit the bullet and signed on to pay $600 a month for Amy through my work, hoping to qualify for cheap healthcare through the state for the kids. :(


So it does work enough in CA to do that much. That's good. But I foresee a problem if the process isn't easy. Then only the motivated, i.e. sick and without insurance will go through the hassle of signing up. Not the healthy, who as I understand it are needed to pay for the first group.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:14 pm

achilles wrote:
So it does work enough in CA to do that much. That's good. But I foresee a problem if the process isn't easy. Then only the motivated, i.e. sick and without insurance will go through the hassle of signing up. Not the healthy, who as I understand it are needed to pay for the first group.


I'm sure they'll work out the kinks on that. I will give the California website this - it's a fuck of a lot easier to compare plans than if you had to gather all that info yourself. It's like Priceline.com or a similar site. The plans are the same old shit that have always been offered though. The only big changes are tax subsidies (that don't help the middle class) and the prexisting condition thing (which is good). Really though, they should just tax everyone and give citizens a choice of either a basic free health plan where they pay nothing and can visit certain doctors and may have waiting lists, or a voucher for $X to put toward a private plan if they so desire.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:55 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I'm sure they'll work out the kinks on that. I will give the California website this - it's a fuck of a lot easier to compare plans than if you had to gather all that info yourself. It's like Priceline.com or a similar site. The plans are the same old shit that have always been offered though. The only big changes are tax subsidies (that don't help the middle class) and the prexisting condition thing (which is good). Really though, they should just tax everyone and give citizens a choice of either a basic free health plan where they pay nothing and can visit certain doctors and may have waiting lists, or a voucher for $X to put toward a private plan if they so desire.


You know, I'd be interested in hearing the details of how all this works in countries like Canada, Britain, or say Sweden. Not a comparison mind you, but the nuts and bolts of going from being in the health service to going to see your doctor.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:02 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I'm sure they'll work out the kinks on that. I will give the California website this - it's a fuck of a lot easier to compare plans than if you had to gather all that info yourself. It's like Priceline.com or a similar site. The plans are the same old shit that have always been offered though. The only big changes are tax subsidies (that don't help the middle class) and the prexisting condition thing (which is good). Really though, they should just tax everyone and give citizens a choice of either a basic free health plan where they pay nothing and can visit certain doctors and may have waiting lists, or a voucher for $X to put toward a private plan if they so desire.


Or...

Let everyone pay the doctor for goods and services rendered.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby habitual » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:16 pm

Spektre wrote:
We could also talk about quantum mechanics, the Andromeda Galaxy, beer fermentation, or any other of a number of unrelated topics.

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Image

Me thinks he throws words around he knows not what they mean.

You're simply not connected to reality Hab.


These statistics were debunked several pages back.

I told you I'm done checking your work, just keep your eyes peeled for de plane for de boss.

Hab

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby habitual » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:17 pm

Spektre wrote:
Or...

Let everyone pay the doctor for goods and services rendered.


So you want to sack the entire health insurance industry.

Sounds remarkably anti-business and anti-libertarian.

Hab

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:29 pm

achilles wrote:
You know, I'd be interested in hearing the details of how all this works in countries like Canada, Britain, or say Sweden. Not a comparison mind you, but the nuts and bolts of going from being in the health service to going to see your doctor.



Well, we have posters here from all three, and Australia too. Perhaps I'll start a thread.
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