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So who's getting Obamacare?

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What will you be doing once Obamacare takes effect?

I will be keeping my current plan.
23
64%
I will be signing up for a new plan under Obamacare.
6
17%
I will be losing my insurance.
1
3%
I don't have insurance now and will continue to not have it.
3
8%
I am a US Senator or major corporation so I am exempt.
3
8%
 
Total votes : 36

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The Old Doctor
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby The Old Doctor » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:35 pm

achilles wrote:
You know, I'd be interested in hearing the details of how all this works in countries like Canada, Britain, or say Sweden. Not a comparison mind you, but the nuts and bolts of going from being in the health service to going to see your doctor.


In Canada it may differ from province to province.

Here in Ontario you simple go to your doctor or walk-in clinic or hospital and present your Health Card. This is an ID that allows you use of the system. Once there, you're registered with them for future visits. The ID is photo for most these days, but for old farts like me, it is not a photo one. Every time I see the family doctor, he sends in a bill to the OHIP for his payment. Same with specialist that are covered.
Eye and dental are not part of OHIP, though with eyes, as a diabetic, I can get OHIP coverage. Anything else requires either a separate insurance plan or cash. I've paid cash for dental. For prescriptions, that's your own plan unless you can get on some government program for help. But those can be total bullshit and result in no help.

Basically, in all our taxes is blended in the health funding, in both federal and provincial. It's been there since prior to my entering the work force, so I don't feel it any different then any other tax.

I really don't see why it cannot be set up similar to us down there. Federal tax for federal level plan, then a State tax for the more specific plan for that state. Issue a card or two, one fed and the other state, and off you go. The money pools for all and as long as hospitals, doctors and such do not over charge and of course are watched for that, there should be no problems. That and making sure folks do not abuse the emergency rooms.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:37 pm

habitual wrote:
These statistics were debunked several pages back.

I told you I'm done checking your work, just keep your eyes peeled for de plane for de boss.

Hab


Once again you just DRIP with willful ignorance.

These AREN'T statistics. To be a statistic you must analyze or otherwise process data. This (other than my drawn red line) is simply data. Please use it to make your argument that social welfare programs reduce poverty, or in the likely case you can't, feel free to submit competing data.

Or continue living in "It's this way 'cuz I say so" land.
Last edited by Spektre on Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:38 pm

habitual wrote:
So you want to sack the entire health insurance industry.

Sounds remarkably anti-business and anti-libertarian.

Hab


I am certainly NOT pro-business. Not sure where you'd get that idea.

I am not anti-insurance either, so long as it is voluntarily entered into.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby habitual » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:43 pm

Spektre wrote:
I am certainly NOT pro-business. Not sure where you'd get that idea.

I am not anti-insurance either, so long as it is voluntarily entered into.


You're a libertarian. There really isn't a political outlook that is more pro-business than libertarianism.

Hab

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
In Canada it may differ from province to province.

Here in Ontario you simple go to your doctor or walk-in clinic or hospital and present your Health Card. This is an ID that allows you use of the system. Once there, you're registered with them for future visits. The ID is photo for most these days, but for old farts like me, it is not a photo one. Every time I see the family doctor, he sends in a bill to the OHIP for his payment. Same with specialist that are covered.
Eye and dental are not part of OHIP, though with eyes, as a diabetic, I can get OHIP coverage. Anything else requires either a separate insurance plan or cash. I've paid cash for dental. For prescriptions, that's your own plan unless you can get on some government program for help. But those can be total bullshit and result in no help.

Basically, in all our taxes is blended in the health funding, in both federal and provincial. It's been there since prior to my entering the work force, so I don't feel it any different then any other tax.

I really don't see why it cannot be set up similar to us down there. Federal tax for federal level plan, then a State tax for the more specific plan for that state. Issue a card or two, one fed and the other state, and off you go. The money pools for all and as long as hospitals, doctors and such do not over charge and of course are watched for that, there should be no problems. That and making sure folks do not abuse the emergency rooms.


Interesting. Here we have a huge problem with costs. For example, hospitals have been known to charge over $100 for a single Tylenol. There are reasons for that, most of which relate to the fact that our system currently is entirely dysfunctional.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby The Old Doctor » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:14 pm

achilles wrote:
Interesting. Here we have a huge problem with costs. For example, hospitals have been known to charge over $100 for a single Tylenol. There are reasons for that, most of which relate to the fact that our system currently is entirely dysfunctional.


There are watchdog groups both in and outside the government for watching for that. At least once a decade a doctor will purposely over charge and reveal it to make a point of when things are slack. We get a break down of the costs on all prescriptions. The biggest costs are the drugist and sometimes the taxes. Keep in mind, the drugs here are cheap compared to there. So...

For all of you, it's a big catch up with a huge population and trying to keep it almost two tier. Massive growing pains. That and it appears that the politicos are trying to play cherrypick who gets what and how much for the most piss poor reasons down there.

Our fed plan is and more less does cover the stuff we all agree on. The province does the rest. Things do change from time to time though, decades ago eyes were more covered under OHIP then they are today. My one friend was covered to get his eyes checked back then, but not now. Meanwhile I had it available and still do, since I'm a diabetic.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Arion » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:18 pm

achilles wrote:
Interesting. Here we have a huge problem with costs. For example, hospitals have been known to charge over $100 for a single Tylenol. There are reasons for that, most of which relate to the fact that our system currently is entirely dysfunctional.


That's irrationally expensive.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby achilles » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:40 pm

Arion wrote:
That's irrationally expensive.


Irrational is pretty much what I'd call it. Profiteering is another.

As an interesting aside, Blue Shield has announced that it is cutting HALF the doctors it has contracted with for its regular plans for the Covered California plans, (California ObamaCare), to contain costs. Kaiser, the HMO outfit, announced it isn't cutting a single doctor or facility. The other big company working in California, Blue Cross, hasn't said one way or another.

The difference is that Blue Shield's plans are PPO, wherein they have a network of doctors and hospitals that contract with them, and you pretty much have your choice of which you go to. Kaiser OTOH, makes you use their hospitals and doctors. Wait times are typically longer, and they've had the rep of kicking you out of the hospital sooner, though in my experience, that's changing.

So basically, the "better" plans, the PPOs, are essentially worthless, since the best doctors and hospitals will be out.

Which leaves me wondering whether I want to try for the Kaiser HMO or the Blue Cross PPO. Especially since the list of covered doctors on the Covered California site has been taken down since it was found to be wildly inaccurate---to the extent that specialities were screwed up.

I don't know what to do. I do need access to a surgeon who is adept in a rather specialized surgery that I'd like to have done, but I'm not sure if Kaiser has them, or if the PPO's will either.
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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Frag » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:36 pm

Jude Terror wrote:I'll vote for NPWFBH in the next election.


Outhouse Post #1,000,000:

Frag It wrote::smt117


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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:06 pm

achilles wrote:
Irrational is pretty much what I'd call it. Profiteering is another.

As an interesting aside, Blue Shield has announced that it is cutting HALF the doctors it has contracted with for its regular plans for the Covered California plans, (California ObamaCare), to contain costs. Kaiser, the HMO outfit, announced it isn't cutting a single doctor or facility. The other big company working in California, Blue Cross, hasn't said one way or another.

The difference is that Blue Shield's plans are PPO, wherein they have a network of doctors and hospitals that contract with them, and you pretty much have your choice of which you go to. Kaiser OTOH, makes you use their hospitals and doctors. Wait times are typically longer, and they've had the rep of kicking you out of the hospital sooner, though in my experience, that's changing.

So basically, the "better" plans, the PPOs, are essentially worthless, since the best doctors and hospitals will be out.

Which leaves me wondering whether I want to try for the Kaiser HMO or the Blue Cross PPO. Especially since the list of covered doctors on the Covered California site has been taken down since it was found to be wildly inaccurate---to the extent that specialities were screwed up.

I don't know what to do. I do need access to a surgeon who is adept in a rather specialized surgery that I'd like to have done, but I'm not sure if Kaiser has them, or if the PPO's will either.


Dude, Kaiser is fucking awesome. That's what I have, and while I'm unhappy with my work's lack of contribution for Amy, the plan itself is amazing. There's nothing they don't cover.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:07 pm

The Obamacare Kaiser plan is kinda crappy though, PPO coverage at a place that owns all their own hospitals. Strange.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby adamiani » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:34 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:The Obamacare Kaiser plan is kinda crappy though, PPO coverage at a place that owns all their own hospitals. Strange.



Does that depend on tier?

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:46 pm

adamiani wrote:

Does that depend on tier?


Yeah, I'm talking about the Silver one.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:28 pm

habitual wrote:
You're a libertarian. There really isn't a political outlook that is more pro-business than libertarianism.

Hab


Again you are mistaken.

A business is a group. Libertarians would generally not accept special treatment to a group. Libertarians believe liberty and freedom are vested in the INDIVIDUAL.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: So who's getting Obamacare?

Postby Spektre » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:30 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
There are watchdog groups both in and outside the government for watching for that. At least once a decade a doctor will purposely over charge and reveal it to make a point of when things are slack. We get a break down of the costs on all prescriptions. The biggest costs are the drugist and sometimes the taxes. Keep in mind, the drugs here are cheap compared to there. So...

For all of you, it's a big catch up with a huge population and trying to keep it almost two tier. Massive growing pains. That and it appears that the politicos are trying to play cherrypick who gets what and how much for the most piss poor reasons down there.

Our fed plan is and more less does cover the stuff we all agree on. The province does the rest. Things do change from time to time though, decades ago eyes were more covered under OHIP then they are today. My one friend was covered to get his eyes checked back then, but not now. Meanwhile I had it available and still do, since I'm a diabetic.


I can't believe this, a central planning agency that tries to cherry pick the rules to favor its supporters? Tell me it isn't so.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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