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Will DC ever catch Marvel?

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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:51 pm

chap22 wrote:thing is, even with comics, "what is #1 on sales charts generally tends to be pretty indicative of the quality of the brands" isn't necessarily true b/c of the audience. Marvel stunk to high heaven for a good chunk of the 90s, and they were still number 1. the audience is so small for comics (a few hundred thousand at most), and a good portion of that audience is made up of the blind followers. the work doesn't have to be good so long as you just publish what your limited fan base wants. Marvel's X- and Spidey-lines throughout the 90s and into the early 2000s were prime examples of this.


speaking as a former proud one myself, they don't call themselves "Zombies" for nothing, y'know? ;-)


Why does Marvel seem to encourage more zombies than other companies?

People who, back when it was possible, would buy virtually every book Marvel put out.

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Postby nietoperz » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:52 pm

Spiderrob wrote:Why does Marvel seem to encourage more zombies than other companies?

People who, back when it was possible, would buy virtually every book Marvel put out.


I don't know - I've never understood it at all. I mean, back in the Shooter days it was almost understandable but some 90s Marvel was SO bad...
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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:55 pm

As a kid, circa 1987-1995 or so, i bought more and more and more Marvel. By the end, i was buying practically everything and what I did not spend on my girlfriend, I'd spend on Marvel.


I mean, when they exploded to 100 books a month, I couldn't get all that, but I betcha i was buying 50

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Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:56 pm

Spiderrob wrote:Why does Marvel seem to encourage more zombies than other companies?

People who, back when it was possible, would buy virtually every book Marvel put out.

it's a strange phenomenon, and i won't even pretend to have a good answer, but my best guess: Stan Lee.

dating back to and primarily due to Stan, Marvel's always been the better hype machine. plus their universe felt more interconnected from the get-go; no imaginary cities, Stan just put all his heroes smack in the heart of NYC and had them interact. and from there Marvel as a brand hawked, they stumped, they encouraged things like FOOM and the MMMS, they made readers feel like more of a working part of the process (even though they weren't)...and that feeling has pretty much always remained.


just my guess, i could be completely wrong...
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Postby Spidey-Man » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:02 pm

I remember feeling very strongly that Marvel meant something and DC was just...a company.

I mean, I wanted to win a No-Prize so badly. and I did.

I ate up the histories they published.

I arrogantly looked down at DC who had to reboot. I mean, DC was basically telling me "We fucked it up the first time. Sorry. We're better now."

It would snow in thor and a panel would show it snowing in Amazing Spider-Man with a footnote to thor.

and even though the X-Men were never my favorite, DC had nothing like them. Nothing so damn cool as Wolverine.


The Marvel characters just really spoke better to me. Even though I knew more DC characters when I first started. Especially Spider-Man.

and the company "Until we give Spider-Man bone claws :x Make Mine Marvel".

I agree keeping the whole "Stan Lee Presents" tone was important. "You fans are the real editors. Tell us what you want"

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Postby McKegan » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:26 pm

What's with all this backdoor, Marvel bashing?

It's not like those 90s Batman and Superman books were such hot shit.

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Postby toolverine » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:32 pm

Lots more established minority characters too. Some of it is just the advantage of having a newer company.

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Postby zombiemichaeljackson » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:34 pm

You know how in Metalocalypse they refer to acoustic instruments as 'grandpa's guitars?'

That's kind of how I felt about DC in the 80's and 90's.

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Postby john lewis hawk » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:59 pm

Spiderrob wrote:Why does Marvel seem to encourage more zombies than other companies?

People who, back when it was possible, would buy virtually every book Marvel put out.
Quite frankly, DC fans just don't know they're zombies.

Back when I posted at Newsarama, I remember seeing the DC bashers/ diehard Marvel fans and, personally, I thought they were idiots. Most of them made no sense, had bad grammar and spelling, and seemed to be the only ones oblivous to their own stupidity.

DC fans, on the other hand, are a lot like Nieto and Chap. Both of them I consider to be intelligent, reasonable people but I think, when it comes to comics, their opinions are a little bit out there (and I'm sure they return the favor).

I mean this in the most respectful way, but I think probably all humans (myself definitely included) are probably ignorant in one way or another and that's what happens with the DC zombies.

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Postby nietoperz » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:07 pm

john lewis wrote:DC fans, on the other hand, are a lot like Nieto and Chap. Both of them I consider to be intelligent, reasonable people but I think, when it comes to comics, their opinions are a little bit out there (and I'm sure they return the favor).


Except of course that I was as big a Marvelite as I was a DC fan all the way until fairly recently. And I don't think it's fair to label someone with differing opinions or tastes as being 'out there' (and no, I don't return the favour).
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Postby john lewis hawk » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:09 pm

nietoperz wrote:Except of course that I was as big a Marvelite as I was a DC fan all the way until fairly recently. And I don't think it's fair to label someone with differing opinions or tastes as being 'out there' (and no, I don't return the favour).
Okay, so it doesn't work for you and possibly Chap too but it works for someone.

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Postby Nightfly » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:59 pm

nietoperz wrote:Except of course that I was as big a Marvelite as I was a DC fan all the way until fairly recently. And I don't think it's fair to label someone with differing opinions or tastes as being 'out there' (and no, I don't return the favour).

Yeah, I was around just long enough (@ Rama) to remember the last days of your respecting Marvel.

I (barely) remember trying to get you to stay w/ Marvel a little longer towards the end... and then not too long later I followed your lead; dropping Marvel books like I woulda never previously believed.

Nowadays I don't get all that much of Marvel or DC. I happily get a pretty good mix of a bunch of companies. If anything Dark Horse & Dynamite are my Big2 these days.
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Postby Chris » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:09 pm

I'm reading more Marvel now than ever.. and IMO, Marvel is putting more quality books out now than ever.

Avengers: The Initiative
Cable
Captain America
Captain Britain and MI 13
Criminal
Daredevil
The Eternals
GeNext
Guardians of the Galaxy
Immortal Iron Fist
Incredible Hercules
Iron Man
Kick-Ass
New Avengers
Nova!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Omega the Unknown
Punisher MAX
Secret Invasion
Terror Inc.
Thor
Uncanny X-Men
Wolverine (current arc)
X-Factor
X-Force
Young X-Men
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Postby McKegan » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:31 pm

DaReekstah wrote:I'm reading more Marvel now than ever.. and IMO, Marvel is putting more quality books out now than ever.

Avengers: The Initiative
Cable
Captain America
Captain Britain and MI 13
Criminal
Daredevil
The Eternals
GeNext
Guardians of the Galaxy
Immortal Iron Fist
Incredible Hercules
Iron Man
Kick-Ass
New Avengers
Nova!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Omega the Unknown
Punisher MAX
Secret Invasion
Terror Inc.
Thor
Uncanny X-Men
Wolverine (current arc)
X-Factor
X-Force
Young X-Men


It's getting to be a problem. There's too much good stuff coming out, across companies.

My wallet is imploding.

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Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:59 pm

nietoperz wrote:Except of course that I was as big a Marvelite as I was a DC fan all the way until fairly recently. And I don't think it's fair to label someone with differing opinions or tastes as being 'out there' (and no, I don't return the favour).

yeah, i was the same way.

hell, for most of the 90s, i was a Zombie. the only DC books i bought from about 95 until 2002 or so were Morrison's JLA, Nightwing, Robin, an occasional Bat-storyline, and i'd peek at any "events" to see what was going on. and i bought nearly everything from Marvel. but i didn't get hardcore DC again until i picked up trades of "Return of Barry Allen" and the first trades of JSA and Starman. and from there, i caught up fast on what i missed.

and starting basically with Austen, i dropped all X-titles. with Bendis, i dropped DD and Avengers. with OMD i've dropped all Spidey. and with Millar i've now dropped FF. so there's just not much left for me at Marvel that i enjoy. and that really saddens me, truthfully.
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rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

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