The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[fieldy snuts]

Sorry, but I don't agree with him. One man's meat is another man's poison, Rob. Marvel is, to me, the worst it has ever been just now, while DC is on an uptick. Others see things a different way.

For that reason, Shooter's absolutist ideas are fundamentally misguided, if not outright wrong.

see its a matter of opinion. i gave up on marvel except busiek's avengers for years. i was turned of all comics except that one and the occasional star wars one. when quesada had established himself and i started taking a look at some books like bendis's daredevil and USM and a few others here and there i was like "wow they really stepped up" so i jumped back on the bandwagon and have been on it ever since. DC had its moments around that time too but IMO they're a one-trick pony with their emphasis on events and i really got sick of it. despite marvel going all-out on the events as well i feel they balance it out a lot better.

then again like i said this is my opinion and i bet you wont see stuff my way.

[Nightfly]

Please could you dial it back a little. I know you're kidding but this was pretty harsh.

For clarity's sake I was hoping you could identify exactly which part of my post you found so harsh. I need you to spell it out for me so I don't make the same mistake again.

No offense, bro... but are you kidding? I woulda thunk you'd eat up a militaristic, arms dealing fascist's book.

Was it my calling Iron Man a "militaristic fascist" that was out of bounds?

Was it my implication that Rob would be sympathetic/enthusiastic to that viewpoint? Was that overly harsh?

Assuming for a moment that I directly namecalled Rob a "militaristic fascist", which I quite literally didn't, would that be out of bounds?
If so, does that also mean he could never -in turn- call me a 'pacifistic socialist'?

What other viewpoints are considered purgoratives? Is implying someone is a humanist, or environmentalist equally harsh? I imagine it could be to some folk.

Anyway, please specify as elaborately as possible on what part of my post was nearing, if not over, the line.

[fieldy snuts]

on the subject of fascism, fascist iron man is the greatest re-imagining of the character ever. sure its controversial but damn if it didnt skyrocket his profile.

[Nightfly]

on the subject of fascism, fascist iron man is the greatest re-imagining of the character ever. sure its controversial but damn if it didnt skyrocket his profile.

I can't argue his profile being raised, but his fascist shenanigans (including many Spidey missteps) succeeded in getting me to drop 99% of my Marvel pulls.

So, ulitmately I'm happy for Iron Man fans who love his re-imagining, but I'm sad for myself who virtually lost the 616 I'd spent years loving & financially supporting.

At least now I'm getting all kinds of indy books I never would've got before. Silver lining, I guess.

[Chris]

You know.. I used to hate Iron Man. Until he became a dick.

Infact, I'm still pulling for them to make him a villain.

[Sgt.Marvel]

No, you don't count because you can't come up with good comebacks.

FAIL!

My comebacks are awesome and you know it.

[john lewis hawk]

Was it my calling Iron Man a "militaristic fascist" that was out of bounds?

Was it my implication that Rob would be sympathetic/enthusiastic to that viewpoint? Was that overly harsh?

Assuming for a moment that I directly namecalled Rob a "militaristic fascist", which I quite literally didn't, would that be out of bounds?
If so, does that also mean he could never -in turn- call me a 'pacifistic socialist'?

What other viewpoints are considered purgoratives? Is implying someone is a humanist, or environmentalist equally harsh? I imagine it could be to some folk.

Anyway, please specify as elaborately as possible on what part of my post was nearing, if not over, the line.

It's the "fascist" part. Pretty much, you said that Spiderrob supported fascism to some degree.

I don't know your relationship to Spiderrob but considering the fact that I don't and that this has been a somewhat serious discussion, there's definitely the possibilty that what you said was an insult rather than a joke and Nieto may see it that way.

[Nightfly]

It's the "fascist" part. Pretty much, you said that Spiderrob supported fascism to some degree.

I don't know your relationship to Spiderrob but considering the fact that I don't and that this has been a somewhat serious discussion, there's definitely the possibilty that what you said was an insult rather than a joke and Nieto may see it that way.

Oh. Over at Brady's old Rama we were freely allowed to call each other fascists, communists, racists, socialists, or whatever.
I didn't know that was frowned upon here.
Particularly in light of all the cussing allowed here I would've never guessed that 'ism' accusations would draw moderator warnings.

I've only been here less than a month, so I guess I'm still learning what exactly is allowed here & by/for whom.

[bg.]

I'd try a lot more DC, if they just added a freaken recap page.

You know, I don't normally like a recap pages, but I think its becoming more and more necessary for DC to start including a recap. Especially with minis like Final Crisis that they want to sell alot of.

[Daniel]

I personally agree with a lot of points brought up but I think, you enjoy what you enjoy. As simple as that. I have a fairly easy time understanding what's happening in both universes (I think), and just pick up what interests you.

[zombiemichaeljackson]

Personally, I think Marvel is dominating because they are putting out, on the whole, far better books than DC is at the moment. It really is that simple. What books at DC are truly 'must buy' titles? JSA and All Star Superman. Is there anything else that you feel like you have to have every month? Because that's about it for me. Green Lantern is solid, Detective Comics is good, Batman is more interesting than good, is there anything else? Flash is underwhelming, Titans is....ugh, JLA is getting better but still kind of dull, and really, that's about it. I know they have more way more books than that on the shelf, and there are more that I generally buy, but I can't think of any that aren't mini's. Even Vertigo only really has Fables and Jack of Fables right now. That's kind of sad, right?

[Eli Katz]

I like DC best when it presents straightforward, character-driven stories.

For instance, I like Batman RIP a lot. It's a simple but intriguing look at, and breakdown of, Batman. Cool. I can't wait for next ish just to find out what happens next.

I like Trinity, too. It's a clear but entertaining look at the three core heroes in the DC Universe. It's great seeing these heroes interacting with each other, just to see how they get along and why they respect and depend on each other so much. That first ish, with the three meeting for lunch, was a simple but well-written moment that showed a closeness between these characters that isn't often emphasized.

However, I don't like DC when it showcases obscure characters that I haven't read about in 20 years and that I don't care enough about to google.

Personally, if DC did more RIP- and Trinity-type stories, I think it would see its sales increase significantly. I think the way Trinity is being handled is particularly clever on the part of DC: take one of Marvel's most loved artists, get him to draw an ongoing that features DC's biggest heroes, and tell a story that everyone -- even Marvel zombies who don't know a lick about DC history -- can understand. No back story, no multiple universe junk, just clear plot development.

DC can match Marvel in sales. But it has to tell stories that draw in more than just hardcore fans.

[rdrsfn82]

Doesn't it happen all the time in everything that's dominated by two groups? The NFC is dominant, then the AFC. The AL, then the NL. Marvel, then DC. Sooner or later DC will take the top spot for a while and we'll see the same stories about whether Marvel can come back. It's cyclical.

[DeadFett]

I feel the same way Jude does for the most part. In the wake of Identity Crisis and the lead into Infinite Crisis my pull list was just about even between Marvel and DC. And I've been a Marvel guy my whole life. At the time I found the DCU to be a far more interesting place with better stories. I wasn't even pissed that I had to buy extra issues of Superman and Wonder Woman just to get the whole OMAC mini.

And then Infinite Crisis hit. I thought it started good and ended very weak. To me, it relied to heavily on the past continuity of the previous COIE. The return of Earth-2 Superman, Superboy prime, etc. just sent my head spinning as a relative n00b to DC. OYL continued the downward tend with DC for me. Most of the titles I was enjoying just stopped being fun with OYL. I still collect some DC books but for the most part I just find the Marvel U to be a more "real" place.

[Jubilee]

I much prefer Marvels comics at the moment. They just seem to be that much better. The dialogue feels better, the stories are awesome, and they have great artists.

If DC carry on like they are, then no, I don't feel they'll catch Marvel. Especially as I think Trinity will sell a lot less than Countdown.