The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Benderbrau** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:I don't care how you cut it, Luke was SUPPOSED to take on Vader AND the Emperor.

Only a fully trained Jedi KNight, with the Force as his ally, can defeat Vader and his Emperor if I recall correctly. Or are you seriously contending that Luke was only supposed to take on Vader? That makes no sense.

Luke was meant to end the rule of the Sith and he was utterly unprepared for it. There is no way after seeing the prequels that Yoda or Obi-Wan could have possibly believed that Luke was remotely capable of taking on the Emperor.

And it wasn't a stalemate with Yoda and the Emperor (but that would have actually made it worse because why wouldn't he then come back to finish the job, this time with Obi-Wan, instead of hiding for 20 years).

After watching the prequels I don't even get the sense that Luke was prepared to fight Vader. After all Vader/Anakin was trained since a kid by two masters during the height of the Jedi's power. Luke on the other hand was trained for a few weeks maybe on a rusty on ship by a broken old man and in a swamp by another broken old...er...thing.

by **Jack Burton** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:43 pm

The prequels screw a lot of stuff up. Given in theory Jedi need to be trained for years heck almost since birth the very idea that Luke is sent to fight Vader and Palpatine with his training is crazy.

It's like if you took a few boxing lessons then challenged Muhammad Ali to a fight.

by **Zechs** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:57 pm

Jack Burton wrote:The prequels screw a lot of stuff up. Given in theory Jedi need to be trained for years heck almost since birth the very idea that Luke is sent to fight Vader and Palpatine with his training is crazy.

It's like if you took a few boxing lessons then challenged Muhammad Ali to a fight.

That was the whole point in Empire and why Luke got his ass kicked hard. He didn't have enough training. And what training he did get was the cheat sheet guide from Obi-Wan and Yoda's was just a more aggressive guide. No lightsaber training at all. Just kid you can move any object when using the force. Oh and don't give into your emotions. BAM!

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:13 pm

Benderbrau wrote:After watching the prequels I don't even get the sense that Luke was prepared to fight Vader. After all Vader/Anakin was trained since a kid by two masters during the height of the Jedi's power. Luke on the other hand was trained for a few weeks maybe on a rusty on ship by a broken old man and in a swamp by another broken old...er...thing.

See, when I first saw the movies, it could make sense. Sure, it was going to be tough for Luke to defeat Vader, but there was a chance. Vader was more cyborg, he was older, and Luke had that whole righteous fire thing going.

The Emperor (without knowledge of the prequels) seemed to be more of a manipulator rather than a powerful SIth lord. SO when he pulls the lightning bolt schtick, it's a surprise. I even wondered whether Yoda or Obi-Wan knew of the Emperor's true powers.

But after watching the prequels, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL they could have thought that Luke stood any chance against the Emperor AND Vader. Not a chance in hell. That motherfucker was doing triple sow cows or however the fuck you spell it and taking out Jedi MASTERS left and right when he was already an old as fuck Chancellor. Whether Luke threw down his lightsaber or not, there was no way he could have won.

by **False Prophet** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:19 pm

The more I think about it the more I realize that Obi and Yoda let a lot of bad shit happen to a lot of innocent people for almost two decades without so much as a yelp.

It's also kind of ridiculous that that chump Vader couldn't sense his children for all of those years, especially since he was practically rubbing against one of them in A New Hope.

by **Benderbrau** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:19 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:
See, when I first saw the movies, it could make sense. Sure, it was going to be tough for Luke to defeat Vader, but there was a chance. Vader was more cyborg, he was older, and Luke had that whole righteous fire thing going.

The Emperor (without knowledge of the prequels) seemed to be more of a manipulator rather than a powerful SIth lord. SO when he pulls the lightning bolt schtick, it's a surprise. I even wondered whether Yoda or Obi-Wan knew of the Emperor's true powers.

But after watching the prequels, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL they could have thought that Luke stood any chance against the Emperor AND Vader. Not a chance in hell. That motherfucker was doing triple sow cows or however the fuck you spell it and taking out Jedi MASTERS left and right when he was already an old as fuck Chancellor. Whether Luke threw down his lightsaber or not, there was no way he could have won.

Well in all honesty remember that it wasn't Luke who killed the Emperor. It was Vader. And only because Vader took him by surprise.

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:22 pm

Benderbrau wrote:Well in all honesty remember that it wasn't Luke who killed the Emperor. It was Vader. And only because Vader took him by surprise.

I know, but Luke was obviously Yoda's and Kenobi's hope to end the rule of the SIth.

That was it.
That was their plan.

They waited 20 years to train a boy for 5 months to take on the biggest baddest Sith Lord ever known who just happened to be the guy that destroyed the Jedi Order. God the prequels really make the Jedi seem like douches.

by **Jack Burton** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:26 pm

The thing that bugs me me A lot actually is that Yoda and Obi Wan could have taken Palpatine any time in Revenge of the Sith. Just ambushed his ass and killed him.

Obi Wan also came across as either a giant wuss or total asshole at the end of Sith. You leave your "brother" burned up and in pain to suffer a slow death? Just walk over there with your lightsaber and KILL him. It's the merciful thing to do you jerk. Or if that's too personal use the force to snap his neck or at least push him in the lava!

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:31 pm

Jack Burton wrote:The thing that bugs me me A lot actually is that Yoda and Obi Wan could have taken Palpatine any time in Revenge of the Sith. Just ambushed his ass and killed him.

Obi Wan also came across as either a giant wuss or total asshole at the end of Sith. You leave your "brother" burned up and in pain to suffer a slow death? Just walk over there with your lightsaber and KILL him. It's the merciful thing to do you jerk. Or if that's too personal use the for to snap his neck or push him in the lava!

Dude, the entire comic angle of Obi Wan slowly pushing ANakin into the lava would be awesome. I can't get the image out of my head...

Anakin: I hate you! I hate you!!! Hey, wait... what's going on? Hey, that lava's getting closer. Dude! What the fuck?!

by **BubbaKanoosh** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:37 pm

Why didn't they change Lukes last name?

by **BubbaKanoosh** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:38 pm

Is the name Skywalker the Smith of a galaxy far far away?

by **Benderbrau** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:38 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Why didn't they change Lukes last name?

Maybe Skywalker is the equivalent of Smith in the Star Wars universe. :smt102

by **Doc Jon** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:43 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Is the name Skywalker the Smith of a galaxy far far away?

Because keeping his name and putting him with his grandmother's adopted family made it so obvious that it was ANakin's kid that the Emperor never believed the Jedi could be that stupid.

Stormtrooper: Sir...ummm... there's this kid named Skywalker and he's living with the family of Shmi Skywalker, you know, Darth Vader's mother. And their name isn't Skywalker, so you know... ummm... it could be his kid... maybe.

by **BubbaKanoosh** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:44 pm

Benderbrau wrote:Maybe Skywalker is the equivalent of Smith in the Star Wars universe.

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Is the name Skywalker the Smith of a galaxy far far away?

by **TROY** » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:44 pm

Jon Salwen wrote:
I know, but Luke was obviously Yoda's and Kenobi's hope to end the rule of the SIth.

That was it.
That was their plan.

They waited 20 years to train a boy for 5 months to take on the biggest baddest Sith Lord ever known who just happened to be the guy that destroyed the Jedi Order. God the prequels really make the Jedi seem like douches.

Really I mean it wasn't like Obi wasn't there watching Luke or anything! Old fucker could have started training him when he was a little kid.

And I echo the statement of how in the fuck did Vader not realize Leia was his daughter when he was all over her ass in New Hope!?