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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:10 pm

Jack Burton wrote:Agree agree agree. Doom's greatest strength isn't his armor, or even his brillant mind. It's his will. In all Marvel nobody not even The Thing(whose never say die attitude is insane)have Doom's willpower. The man has come back from alien galaxies, foreign dimensions, prisons, and even Hell. Doom took on being a trillion times more powerful because Doom doesn't know the word "can't". He is awesome.


Exactly.

And I would probably also put The Thing at #2 on determination and will power.

After that might be Stark or Thanos.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:10 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap and Red already explained why Doom is great. :-D

Seriously though, there's no way Doom is anything less than the best of the best. He's all hardwork and determination. He'd be the greatest GL of all time. He's more driven to be the best than anyone in the Marvel U. He's a regular guy who's built himself into so much more. He's taken on guys with 100x the power of himself and come out on top. He's faced the Devil and made him blink. He's taken on Thanos without a second thought. He's helped the heroes and in many alternate Earth stories he's proven that if he was in charge the world would be much much better. If he hasn't been used well in recent years, it's not because the character isn't awesome, it's because the writers are dumb.


In alternate universes, ok the gyu is great. And yes he has willpower and is determined. But thats nothing special. This guy has been second best all his life, has never fully triumped over the F4.
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KING King Impulse

Teenage Wasteland

Postby KING King Impulse » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:10 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap and Red already explained why Doom is great. :-D

Seriously though, there's no way Doom is anything less than the best of the best. He's all hardwork and determination. He'd be the greatest GL of all time. He's more driven to be the best than anyone in the Marvel U. He's a regular guy who's built himself into so much more. He's taken on guys with 100x the power of himself and come out on top. He's faced the Devil and made him blink. He's taken on Thanos without a second thought. He's helped the heroes and in many alternate Earth stories he's proven that if he was in charge the world would be much much better. If he hasn't been used well in recent years, it's not because the character isn't awesome, it's because the writers are dumb.

Image
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KING King Impulse

Teenage Wasteland

Postby KING King Impulse » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:11 pm

Image
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:11 pm

Jack Burton wrote:Agree agree agree. Doom's greatest strength isn't his armor, or even his brillant mind. It's his will. In all Marvel nobody not even The Thing(whose never say die attitude is insane)have Doom's willpower. The man has come back from alien galaxies, foreign dimensions, prisons, and even Hell. Doom took on being a trillion times more powerful because Doom doesn't know the word "can't". He is awesome.

seriously. name another character who has:

mastered technology to create armor to rival Tony Stark
mastered sorcery to the level of defeating Dr. Strange
mastered robotics to be able to command Ultron
created a working time machine
escaped Hell
defeated beings on the level of the Beyonder, Mephisto, and Silver Surfer all by himself
conquered at least 2 worlds all by himself

etc, etc, etc. go on...i'll wait.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:12 pm

chap22 wrote:seriously. name another character who has:

mastered technology to create armor to rival Tony Stark
mastered sorcery to the level of defeating Dr. Strange
mastered robotics to be able to command Ultron
created a working time machine
escaped Hell
defeated beings on the level of the Beyonder, Mephisto, and Silver Surfer all by himself
conquered at least 2 worlds all by himself

etc, etc, etc. go on...i'll wait.


All these aren't character traits at all. They're just people he's bested. And he's never properly won anything. I can't remember the last time Doom did something good.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:13 pm

Twigglet wrote:In alternate universes, ok the gyu is great. And yes he has willpower and is determined. But thats nothing special. This guy has been second best all his life, has never fully triumped over the F4.

yeah, but then neither have Galactus and his heralds, the entire Skrull armada, the Kree, Ego the Living Planet, etc. DOOM has come closer than those empires and cosmic entities, and he's one guy.
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KING King Impulse

Teenage Wasteland

Postby KING King Impulse » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Twigglet wrote:All these aren't character traits at all. They're just people he's bested. And he's never properly won anything. I can't remember the last time Doom did something good.

Read Waid and 'Ringo's FF

I'm going to tell you this in an IM just to drive the point home.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Twigglet wrote:All these aren't character traits at all. They're just people he's bested. And he's never properly won anything. I can't remember the last time Doom did something good.


If you want too.. it's probably Unthinkable.
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Jack Burton

biny little tird

Postby Jack Burton » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:14 pm

chap22 wrote:seriously. name another character who has:

mastered technology to create armor to rival Tony Stark


And might I add has rarely changed the look. He got it right first try and saw no need to update perfection. Only time he did was when he needed something to store Watcher power or felt like wearing his dead ex's skin.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:16 pm

Twigglet wrote:All these aren't character traits at all. They're just people he's bested. And he's never properly won anything. I can't remember the last time Doom did something good.

not character traits? intelligence isn't a character trait? inventiveness? talent? will? determination? because all those are inherent and sometimes explicit in the list i made.

and Doom escaped hell and killed the Thing in Waid's run. literally killed him.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:16 pm

chap22 wrote:yeah, but then neither have Galactus and his heralds, the entire Skrull armada, the Kree, Ego the Living Planet, etc. DOOM has come closer than those empires and cosmic entities, and he's one guy.


And there's only two people who've ever come as close to Doom.. and that's Magneto and Red Skull. Both of whom have been bested by Doom numerous times.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:16 pm

Twigglet wrote:In alternate universes, ok the gyu is great. And yes he has willpower and is determined. But thats nothing special. This guy has been second best all his life, has never fully triumped over the F4.


It's special in his case. Also he's not #2. He may not rule the world, but he's in charge of one of the strongest countries in the world, despite it being a smaller nation. The only nation on his level is probably Wakanda, and no one is calling the Black Panther a second string guy. He's triumphed over Thanos, the Silver Surfer, Dr Strange, Mephisto, and many others. As chap mentioned, he's as good as anyone in magic, technology, and intelligence. He's probably the best and most interesting villain in all of comics. His motivations aren't actually about beating Richards or being the best, it's really all stemming from pride in his nation and a desire to free his mother from Hell. Doom is what Darkseid wishes he was.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:17 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote: Doom is what Darkseid wishes he was.

QFMFT.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:17 pm

Jack Burton wrote:And might I add has rarely changed the look. He got it right first try and saw no need to update perfection. Only time he did was when he needed something to store Watcher power or felt like wearing his dead ex's skin.


Well that and in the future world of 2099. Although that was mostly just a color change.

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