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Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby HNutz » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:04 pm

The Beast wrote:


Too bad there isn't any physical evidence to support the alternative theory. BTW, Zimmerman didn't profile Martin because he was black, he profiled him because he was behaving like a thug casing houses.



I sympathize with black americans deeply, they are truly the victims of systemic discrimination and blatant harassment from law enforcement. There is a vast discrepancy in how they are treated compared to whites and even other minorities. That being said, ignorance of the law is no defence. One can't legally assault someone just because they're creepy or annoying. One can't vent 400 years of resentment onto anyone else who has the audacity to annoy them.

Especially because that's exactly what their enemy wants them to do. Lash out so they kill each other or justify being incarcerated as slaves working for pennies a day. It's all entrapment and the "thug lifestyle" is bait. Martin bought into it and it cost him his life and if Zimmerman didn't have his gun, it would have cost Martin his freedom depending on the severity of Zimmerman's injuries.


I think the exact words were along the lines of "he looks paranoid, like he's on drugs or something."

He had drugs in his system.
Allegedly, he was trying to put together some "Lean".
Supposedly, he's walking between buildings & casing houses.
There's talk of him carrying jewelry that wasn't his and a tool used in theft.
Even only 1 of those could make him appear paranoid.

Martin called Zimmerman a "crazy ass cracka" and a "gay rapist".

There's nothing to support those allegations.
Last edited by HNutz on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby Frag » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:11 pm

The Beast wrote:

Too bad there isn't any physical evidence to support the alternative theory. BTW, Zimmerman didn't profile Martin because he was black, he profiled him because he was behaving like a thug casing houses.


What?

How was he behaving like a thug? Is wearing a hoodie "acting like a thug"? And we know he wasn't casing houses.

And don't use the "sucker punch" to attempt to prove your point, because you were talking about why Zimmerman followed him in the first place.

This should be entertaining.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby LobsterJ » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:20 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:How was he behaving like a thug?



Do we really need to say it?

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby The Beast » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:46 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
What?

How was he behaving like a thug?


"The call begins with Zimmerman reporting a suspicious person walking around in the rain. Zimmerman says, “We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy.” He describes an unknown male“just walking around looking about”in the rain and says,“This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/07/the-facts-in-the-george-zimmerman-trial.html

His initial description to the police is based on suspicious behavior, not the color of his skin. It's racist of you to presume Zimmerman is lying in order to establish some sort of alibi for possible civil rights violations.

Is wearing a hoodie "acting like a thug"? And we know he wasn't casing houses.

And don't use the "sucker punch" to attempt to prove your point, because you were talking about why Zimmerman followed him in the first place.

This should be entertaining.


Zimmerman is following him because the police dispatch initially requests him to keep tabs on the suspect's behavior. When dispatch realizes the suspect has left the area and Zimmerman is following, they tell him not to do that and Zimmerman replies, "O.K."

At this point you presume the worst of Zimmerman because there's no better witnesses than the guy who saw Martin on top. You just know the worst of GZ, despite the lack of wounds on Martin and all the wounds on Zimmerman and the fact that Martin was shot from underneath. That's even more racist than Zimmerman following Martin because he was behaving suspiciously.

The color of his skin was irrelevant. On the other hand we know that Martin lashed out because he wasn't havin none of that from some "crazy-ass cracker."

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:10 am

achilles wrote:
How so? It's a totally different situation than what Zimmerman was facing, actual potentially lethal violence being done to him at that time. Self defense laws don't allow you to blast away based on something you think MIGHT happen, unless a reasonable person agrees with you that it is very likely you WILL suffer death or great bodily harm.

The only thing Stand Your Ground laws do is take away the duty to retreat, (which of course didn't apply in Zimmerman's case in any event, since he couldn't retreat). They don't allow you to shoot whoever you feel like shooting. As an examination of the outcomes of those cases I provided an indirect link to a couple of dozen posts ago proves.


Sure it was different, if you're a hypocrite. :lol:

Just say it....

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:11 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
What?

How was he behaving like a thug? Is wearing a hoodie "acting like a thug"? And we know he wasn't casing houses.

And don't use the "sucker punch" to attempt to prove your point, because you were talking about why Zimmerman followed him in the first place.

This should be entertaining.



Behaving like a thug = black in bumfuck Canada.

Hab

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby Spektre » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:16 am

habitual wrote:
Sure it was different, if you're a hypocrite. :lol:

Just say it....

Hab


As one who relishes pointing out inconsistencies (its kind of my thing) Achilles is consistent here.

There is a reasonable person fear of great bodily harm or death threshold that must be reached.
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:16 am

achilles wrote:
How so? It's a totally different situation than what Zimmerman was facing, actual potentially lethal violence being done to him at that time. Self defense laws don't allow you to blast away based on something you think MIGHT happen, unless a reasonable person agrees with you that it is very likely you WILL suffer death or great bodily harm.

The only thing Stand Your Ground laws do is take away the duty to retreat, (which of course didn't apply in Zimmerman's case in any event, since he couldn't retreat). They don't allow you to shoot whoever you feel like shooting. As an examination of the outcomes of those cases I provided an indirect link to a couple of dozen posts ago proves.



Again, irony = astounding.

Hab

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby fieldy snuts » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:07 am

hab no matter how much you vent in here, zimmerman was acquitted.

deal with it.

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby Frag » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:07 am

The Beast wrote:"The call begins with Zimmerman reporting a suspicious person walking around in the rain. Zimmerman says, “We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy.” He describes an unknown male“just walking around looking about”in the rain and says,“This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/07/the-facts-in-the-george-zimmerman-trial.html

His initial description to the police is based on suspicious behavior, not the color of his skin. It's racist of you to presume Zimmerman is lying in order to establish some sort of alibi for possible civil rights violations.


You make a lot of assumptions, but really sidestep my questions with the grace of a dumptruck.

1) You didn't answer why Trayvon was "acting like a thug." "Walking around" and "looking up to no good" aren't reasons, especially when it's been proven that he wasn't casing the neighborhood.

2) I didn't say Zimmerman profiled him because he's a racist. I haven't called him a racist in this thread once. So trying that line of defense won't work. Try again.

3) Answer the question: what about Trayvon was "thuglike?"

Zimmerman is following him because the police dispatch initially requests him to keep tabs on the suspect's behavior. When dispatch realizes the suspect has left the area and Zimmerman is following, they tell him not to do that and Zimmerman replies, "O.K."

At this point you presume the worst of Zimmerman because there's no better witnesses than the guy who saw Martin on top. You just know the worst of GZ, despite the lack of wounds on Martin and all the wounds on Zimmerman and the fact that Martin was shot from underneath. That's even more racist than Zimmerman following Martin because he was behaving suspiciously.

The color of his skin was irrelevant. On the other hand we know that Martin lashed out because he wasn't havin none of that from some "crazy-ass cracker."


I didn't say anything about Zimmerman and race, so I am not "presuming the worst" about him. I AM presuming the worst about you. Tell me why his behavior was "thug-like"

I'm still waiting.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:32 am

fieldy snuts wrote:hab no matter how much you vent in here, zimmerman was acquitted.

deal with it.


:lol:

Hab

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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:58 am

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
What?

How was he behaving like a thug? Is wearing a hoodie "acting like a thug"? And we know he wasn't casing houses.

And don't use the "sucker punch" to attempt to prove your point, because you were talking about why Zimmerman followed him in the first place.

This should be entertaining.


Actually, we know nothing of the kind. It was rather off behavior of his all around, and completely unexplained. "Casing houses" is one possible explanation. It's a bit harder to think of an innocent explanation for that particular behavior---IF the addresses were painting on the curbs. Which would put the kibosh to claims that he got lost and was looking for his father's house if he was indeed looking in between houses.

There might be other explanations, but I can't think of them.

But the main point, and the point I can't stress enough, is that I've gotten to 1000 posts! :wink:
Last edited by achilles on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:01 am

habitual wrote:

Again, irony = astounding.

Hab


Please point out the irony without selecting the part of the quote you want to emphasize. Because it's not astounding enough that I get it.
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:06 am

habitual wrote:
Sure it was different, if you're a hypocrite. :lol:

Just say it....

Hab


Let me break this down yet again. If Zimmerman had up and shot Martin while observing him look between houses, because he "looked creepy" or "like up to no good", he would have been guilty of at least manslaughter, or perhaps second degree murder. I would have voted to convict him in that case.

Why? Because he would have had no reasonable fear for his life or of great bodily injury IMO, and I judge that to be "reasonable".

But when Martin was on top of him, pounding his head into the concrete, he was justified in using deadly force IMO because he DID have a reasonable fear for his life.

This is in no way hypocritical, but rather it is the law. Now don't make me send Judge Dredd after you to...explain it further, Hab. :twisted:
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Re: Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:35 am

achilles wrote:
Please point out the irony without selecting the part of the quote you want to emphasize. Because it's not astounding enough that I get it.


I already did, it's why I bolded it.

Hab

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