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Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

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User avatar

Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:15 am

achilles wrote:
Yeah, he looked at PHOTOS! Wow! So did the paid consultant. Besides, what did the CME say? That Zimmerman wasn't hurt badly? So what?

That's not an element of self defense. It only requires that Zimmerman FELT he was in danger of death or great bodily harm for him to use lethal means of self defense.


You can only use lethal means of self defense once you have a state appointed ME look at your wounds and let you know it's okay Achilles!!
User avatar

habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:18 am

HNutz wrote:
Was that the letter she said she wrote?


No she said her friend helped her write it.

Hab
User avatar

S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:33 am

She lied about where she was during his funeral, and came clean on the stand. That damages her credibility.


The problem here is you're all idiots. You either think Trayvon was a violent drug fiend who needed to be put down, or George was a racist maniac out to kill a 12 year old black boy. You don't evaluate evidence and come to a conclusion. You come to a conclusion and then only interpret evidence to support that conclusion.


Both sides of this case behaved poorly, but the media behaved a million times worse. Zimmerman deserves to take responsibility for Martin's death, but I don't think it was murder either.
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:02 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:She lied about where she was during his funeral, and came clean on the stand. That damages her credibility.


The problem here is you're all idiots. You either think Trayvon was a violent drug fiend who needed to be put down, or George was a racist maniac out to kill a 12 year old black boy. You don't evaluate evidence and come to a conclusion. You come to a conclusion and then only interpret evidence to support that conclusion.


Both sides of this case behaved poorly, but the media behaved a million times worse. Zimmerman deserves to take responsibility for Martin's death, but I don't think it was murder either.


No, I don't. I've already stated I don't like Zimmerman and think he acted stupidly. I don't fault his wanting to be a cop, if indeed he did, or his acting in the neighborhood watch---by all accounts he was recruited there, he didn't want to join initially. Regardless, that wasn't my problem with him. His actions prior to the confrontation on that night however were stupid. Stupid, not criminal.

Martin...well, there was no indication he was a hard core criminal. He did some criminal acts prior to the night, and he was definitely capable of violence, the exact sort of violence the Zimmerman team claims. He very probably did attack Zimmerman as claimed. Which I base on the evidence. I would happily go the other way had the evidence shown that.

Regardless, it was a tragedy inflamed by the media, pols like Obama and his Justice Department, which helped organize protests against Zimmerman, demagogues like Jackson and Sharpton, and I must say the Martin family themselves.

IMO, had either of the two participants acted differently or used a lick of common sense that night, none of this would have happened.

That said, once Martin attacked Zimmerman and had him in that position, raining punches down on him, Zimmerman had a right, based on the evidence shown, to shoot.

I say this in light of numerous incidents near my home, (usually at nightclubs---that's where they seem to happen around here), where one guy has punched another---and the guy who was punched either died from the single punch, (like a soccer ref who was punched in the face by a high school kid player and died a couple days later), or from hitting his head on the concrete or asphalt as he fell, (like four or five guys at different clubs around here). So if Zimmerman wasn't in fear for his life, he should have been.

Whatever Martin's intent in attacking Zimmerman, what he was doing was very dangerous, which the ME and prosecution's other witnessed seemed to discount.
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:04 pm

habitual wrote:
Just because I FEEL reading your posts are life threatening doesn't mean I can shoot you and call it self defense! :lol:

Hab


Come on, you like arguing with me... :smt058
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:09 pm

habitual wrote:
No dude she never admitted he was racist.

Hab


Quoting him using "cracker". Or actually "Crazy-ass cracker". Which I suppose is distinguished from "Sane, nice looking cracker". I wonder which I am?

Seriously though, if Zimmerman is called a racist for stuff the media flat out lied about, and obviously isn't. when Martin used what should be considered a racially charged term to describe Zimmerman, (and also an inaccurate one), why wouldn't Martin be fairly called racist?
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:10 pm

Rockman wrote:
You can only use lethal means of self defense once you have a state appointed ME look at your wounds and let you know it's okay Achilles!!


Evidently. By which time you're probably on the table with a tag on your toe...
User avatar

habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:27 pm

achilles wrote:
No, I don't. I've already stated I don't like Zimmerman and think he acted stupidly. I don't fault his wanting to be a cop, if indeed he did, or his acting in the neighborhood watch---by all accounts he was recruited there, he didn't want to join initially. Regardless, that wasn't my problem with him. His actions prior to the confrontation on that night however were stupid. Stupid, not criminal.

Martin...well, there was no indication he was a hard core criminal. He did some criminal acts prior to the night, and he was definitely capable of violence, the exact sort of violence the Zimmerman team claims. He very probably did attack Zimmerman as claimed. Which I base on the evidence. I would happily go the other way had the evidence shown that.

Regardless, it was a tragedy inflamed by the media, pols like Obama and his Justice Department, which helped organize protests against Zimmerman, demagogues like Jackson and Sharpton, and I must say the Martin family themselves.

IMO, had either of the two participants acted differently or used a lick of common sense that night, none of this would have happened.

That said, once Martin attacked Zimmerman and had him in that position, raining punches down on him, Zimmerman had a right, based on the evidence shown, to shoot.

I say this in light of numerous incidents near my home, (usually at nightclubs---that's where they seem to happen around here), where one guy has punched another---and the guy who was punched either died from the single punch, (like a soccer ref who was punched in the face by a high school kid player and died a couple days later), or from hitting his head on the concrete or asphalt as he fell, (like four or five guys at different clubs around here). So if Zimmerman wasn't in fear for his life, he should have been.

Whatever Martin's intent in attacking Zimmerman, what he was doing was very dangerous, which the ME and prosecution's other witnessed seemed to discount.


That is pure fantasy. He appointed himself as the neighborhood watch :lol:

Hab
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:30 pm

So, an IT director for the Florida State Attorney's office was fired for revealing that the prosecution illegally withheld the Martin cellphone images from Zimmerman's lawyers.

Kruidbos testified before Zimmerman's trial began that Martin's cell phone contained images of Martin blowing smoke, images of marijuana and deleted text messages regarding a transaction for a firearm and that those images had not been given to Zimmerman's defense team.

He received the termination letter, dated July 11, on Friday, the same day jurors began deliberating Zimmerman's case. The letter states: "It has come to our attention that you violated numerous State Attorney's Office (SAO) policies and procedures and have engaged in deliberate misconduct that is especially egregious in light of your position."

Kruidbos said that, when he printed a 900-page Florida Department of Law Enforcement report from Martin's cell phone in late 2012 or early 2013, he noticed information was missing.


Curious that they didn't even TRY to hide that it was a retaliatory firing for revealing their criminal conduct in the case.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:06 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:The problem here is you're all idiots. You either think Trayvon was a violent drug fiend who needed to be put down, or George was a racist maniac out to kill a 12 year old black boy.


In my mind, it's both, and it's kinda epic.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:19 pm

Seriously though, I have looked at both sides and I do think Zimmerman was in the right. Not that the outcome wasn't unfortunate, but under the circumstances he had to defend himself. All the people pretending to feel bad for poor little Trayvon are completely full of shit. There's a Trayvon in this country every single day, many of them a whole lot more innocent than No_Limit_Nigga and his Sizzurp.

Had the media been honest and said a hispanic man shot a black teen, nobody would give a damn. Hell, the media wouldn't even have bothered with it. But they said Zimmerman was a racist white man who shot a sweet little black kid buying candy. The emotions here have nothing to do with the violence.
User avatar

habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:37 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:Seriously though, I have looked at both sides and I do think Zimmerman was in the right. Not that the outcome wasn't unfortunate, but under the circumstances he had to defend himself. All the people pretending to feel bad for poor little Trayvon are completely full of shit. There's a Trayvon in this country every single day, many of them a whole lot more innocent than No_Limit_Nigga and his Sizzurp.

Had the media been honest and said a hispanic man shot a black teen, nobody would give a damn. Hell, the media wouldn't even have bothered with it. But they said Zimmerman was a racist white man who shot a sweet little black kid buying candy. The emotions here have nothing to do with the violence.


This is pretty much revisionist history.

The reason this story became news is because an unarmed kid was shot and no arrest was made.

When the details came to light and the ineptitude of the Sanford Police Department was exposed is when this story really broke nationally.

Hab
User avatar

S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:45 pm

No, the media did this on purpose. There's no question about that.

As for Trayvon, I would have acted exactly like he did at that age, probably (which doesn't make it right - I was a delinquent. But I was also a dumb kid, not some thug criminal menace to society like the Zimmerman supporters want to act like.)

Martin didn't deserve to die, and his own and Zimmerman's actions caused that to happen. Manslaughter in Florida doesn't have to imply evil or criminal intent. It can be the result of gross negligence. What the fuck were Zimmerman's actions (and Martin's) that night if not gross negligence?
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:51 pm

habitual wrote:
This is pretty much revisionist history.

The reason this story became news is because an unarmed kid was shot and no arrest was made.

When the details came to light and the ineptitude of the Sanford Police Department was exposed is when this story really broke nationally.

Hab


It's not revisionist. I and many others have said this since the media ran with it last year. Unarmed black kids are shot every day and no arrests are made, but it's ok because they are shot by other blacks. If they hadn't claimed he was white, the black community wouldn't have cared, much less sold Pussy Ass Cracker t-shirts. And we all know damn well Sharpton and Obama would have never shown any interest in it otherwise.
User avatar

achilles

Rain Partier

Postby achilles » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:52 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:No, the media did this on purpose. There's no question about that.

As for Trayvon, I would have acted exactly like he did at that age, probably (which doesn't make it right - I was a delinquent. But I was also a dumb kid, not some thug criminal menace to society like the Zimmerman supporters want to act like.)

Martin didn't deserve to die, and his own and Zimmerman's actions caused that to happen. Manslaughter in Florida doesn't have to imply evil or criminal intent. It can be the result of gross negligence. What the fuck were Zimmerman's actions (and Martin's) that night if not gross negligence?


Actually, in Florida, manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another. In this case, if the claim of self-defense is held up, manslaughter doesn't apply, since the killing becomes lawful.

Nor does negligence apply, since Zimmerman admits he intentionally shot Martin, in fear for his life. The case hangs legally on whether or not a reasonable person in Zimmerman's position AT THE TIME HE FIRED THE SHOT would also have been in fear for his or her life, given the same circumstances, (in other words an MMA fighter probably wouldn't have been, but Zimmerman by all accounts sucked at fighting and was physically unfit).

Whether Zimmernan is an asshole. or whether he should have done something else isn't relevant legally.

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