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Zimmerman/Martin Trial Thread

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User avatar

Frag

REAL OFFICIAL President of the Outhouse

Postby Frag » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:38 pm

"If we're sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms, even if there's a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we'd like to see?" asked Obama on Friday.

"And for those who resist that idea, that we should think about something like these 'Stand Your Ground' laws, I just ask people to consider if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman, who had followed him in a car, because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws," he added.


That is a very good point actually.

What if Trayvon had the gun (assuming he was 18 and could legally carry)? He felt threatened. He could have used the same excuse to shoot Zimmerman.
User avatar

Food Eater lad

cheese

Postby Food Eater lad » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:48 pm

How do you exit the situation when the guy is on top of you, punching your head to the curb?
User avatar

The Beast

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby The Beast » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:52 pm

Food Eater lad wrote:How do you exit the situation when the guy is on top of you, punching your head to the curb?


Exactly.

Martin doesn't get to fire his gun until after Zimmerman sucker punches him, starts bashing his head into the ground and nobody responds to Martin's cries for help after he is unable to escape Zimmerman's ground and pound technique.

Then and only then, is Martin allowed to use lethal force.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:53 pm

Food Eater lad wrote:How do you exit the situation when the guy is on top of you, punching your head to the curb?


It's the same exact thing as someone following you. And we should have the right to kill people walking behind us. Haven't you been paying attention?
User avatar

Frag

REAL OFFICIAL President of the Outhouse

Postby Frag » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:54 pm

I'm glad Ntkrist was an eyewitness and know that Zimmerman was sucker punched.
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Frag

REAL OFFICIAL President of the Outhouse

Postby Frag » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:55 pm

A 17-year-old is being followed by a pervy looking dude. That sounds like a reason to Stand Your Ground.
User avatar

Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:58 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:A 17-year-old is being followed by a pervy looking dude. That sounds like a reason to Stand Your Ground.


Yeah he looked like a Creep-ass cracker, or a gay rapist. Better kill them before you find out. Profiling is only wrong sometimes.
User avatar

achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:09 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:
That is a very good point actually.

What if Trayvon had the gun (assuming he was 18 and could legally carry)? He felt threatened. He could have used the same excuse to shoot Zimmerman.


Then he could have been convicted of manslaughter. Or perhaps murder of some type, depending on the circumstances.

Obama is using a false premise, as is typical of him and for that matter his minions. "Feeling threatened" isn't an excuse to use lethal force. You MUST meet the reasonable person test, which is to say a reasonable person in you circumstance must fear immanent great bodily harm or death.

That's almost always taken to mean you are under actual attack. Just feeling jumpy because someone "creeps you out" doesn't qualify.
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achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:11 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:A 17-year-old is being followed by a pervy looking dude. That sounds like a reason to Stand Your Ground.


Legally, it isn't. And Obama and Holder know that.
User avatar

habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:12 pm

achilles wrote:
Then he could have been convicted of manslaughter. Or perhaps murder of some type, depending on the circumstances.

Obama is using a false premise, as is typical of him and for that matter his minions. "Feeling threatened" isn't an excuse to use lethal force. You MUST meet the reasonable person test, which is to say a reasonable person in you circumstance must fear immanent great bodily harm or death.

That's almost always taken to mean you are under actual attack. Just feeling jumpy because someone "creeps you out" doesn't qualify.


The irony of that statement is astounding.

Hab
User avatar

achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:14 pm

pastajoe wrote:
Really, so you were profiled by a vigilante adult with a gun who confronted you because he stereotyped you, too?


Based on the fact that you met the description of the people burglarizing the neighborhood? And were wandering around in the rain at night, looking between houses like you were casing them?

In NO way acting suspiciously? :lol:

And....I got 1000 posts! :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :smt026 :band
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Spektre

rubber spoon

Postby Spektre » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:18 pm

"When Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said this could've been my son. Another way of saying that is, Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago."


I don't buy it. Let's see the birth certificate.
User avatar

achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:21 pm

habitual wrote:
The irony of that statement is astounding.

Hab


How so? It's a totally different situation than what Zimmerman was facing, actual potentially lethal violence being done to him at that time. Self defense laws don't allow you to blast away based on something you think MIGHT happen, unless a reasonable person agrees with you that it is very likely you WILL suffer death or great bodily harm.

The only thing Stand Your Ground laws do is take away the duty to retreat, (which of course didn't apply in Zimmerman's case in any event, since he couldn't retreat). They don't allow you to shoot whoever you feel like shooting. As an examination of the outcomes of those cases I provided an indirect link to a couple of dozen posts ago proves.
User avatar

Spektre

rubber spoon

Postby Spektre » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:21 pm

ReturnoftheMack wrote:A 17-year-old is being followed by a pervy looking dude. That sounds like a reason to Stand Your Ground.


If you can get a jury to buy that story, best of luck to you.

In this case, a jury believed Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
User avatar

The Beast

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby The Beast » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:50 pm

Spektre wrote:
I don't buy it. Let's see the birth certificate.


I literally LOL'd. :smt005

ReturnoftheMack wrote:I'm glad Ntkrist was an eyewitness and know that Zimmerman was sucker punched.


Too bad there isn't any physical evidence to support the alternative theory. BTW, Zimmerman didn't profile Martin because he was black, he profiled him because he was behaving like a thug casing houses.

ReturnoftheMack wrote:A 17-year-old is being followed by a pervy looking dude. That sounds like a reason to Stand Your Ground.


I sympathize with black americans deeply, they are truly the victims of systemic discrimination and blatant harassment from law enforcement. There is a vast discrepancy in how they are treated compared to whites and even other minorities. That being said, ignorance of the law is no defence. One can't legally assault someone just because they're creepy or annoying. One can't vent 400 years of resentment onto anyone else who has the audacity to annoy them.

Especially because that's exactly what their enemy wants them to do. Lash out so they kill each other or justify being incarcerated as slaves working for pennies a day. It's all entrapment and the "thug lifestyle" is bait. Martin bought into it and it cost him his life and if Zimmerman didn't have his gun, it would have cost Martin his freedom depending on the severity of Zimmerman's injuries.

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