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Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoilers)

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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:23 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
But I don't know, or think, that's a "realistic" chink in the armor for an A.I. that is meant to learn.

OK. I understand what you're saying, that A.I. evolution could mean the gaining of emotion.

But what if isn't? There are plenty of examples in fiction, like Skynet in the Terminator films or the Matrix/machines from that trilogy, who don't.

Humans barely survived those onslaughts -- hell, the entire premise of the Terminator films was time travel to prevent us from being wiped out.

BubbaKanoosh says I'm being close-minded, but how? This story isn't revolutionary. It didn't invent the wheel. The self-aware robot decided to kill us all. We went back in time to stop that from happening.

I don't see where it's harder than that, or where anyone who has seen Terminator or Matrix, where human beings are hiding and barely surviving and fighting, looks at this story as some ridiculous concept with bizarre execution.


No one is complaining about the concept of the story. On the one hand, there is YOU insisting that this story concept is the ONLY possible story that can be told with Ultron anymore, and insisiting that is inevitable that this story be told, and people saying THAT is ridiculous, which is not the same thing.

On the other hand, you have people saying the concept is fine, but executed very poorly, which it is.

You're ranting against a straw man argument of your own construction, to which I will reply, Black Panther trips down a flight of stairs and dies.
User avatar

ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:41 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
No one is complaining about the concept of the story. On the one hand, there is YOU insisting that this story concept is the ONLY possible story that can be told with Ultron anymore, and insisiting that is inevitable that this story be told, and people saying THAT is ridiculous, which is not the same thing.

On the other hand, you have people saying the concept is fine, but executed very poorly, which it is.

You're ranting against a straw man argument of your own construction, to which I will reply, Black Panther trips down a flight of stairs and dies.


Uh...WHAT?

So what you're saying, again, is that "people saying the concept is executed very poorly" is fact, while me saying "the concept as presented has been executed just fine" is...just an incorrect opinion? Based on a straw man argument that I created?

That's just ridiculous. That's a joke.

You saying "it's executed very poorly" is an opinion. There could be 500 people saying that sentence, and it's still AN OPINION. Just like me saying, "oh, wait. I think it's good, because of this, this and this. It was explained here. This trope has been used here. So on and so forth."

Yeah, you know what? Black Panther fell down some stairs and broke his neck. While fleeing from bunch of killer robots who are wiping out humanity, in a dilapidated building.

That could never happen. The infallible Black Panther would...what, again? Escape the horde of killer robots? And do...what?

I'm not creating some straw man. I'm saying that whether Black Panther dies in a fucking stairwell or gets his head blown off like Steve Rogers or gets blown the fuck up like Luke Cage or gets his brains blown out like She-Hulk IS THE SAME GODDAMN THING.

THEY'RE ALL DEAD, BECAUSE ULTRON WON. PERIOD.

That's the story, Jude! For fuck's sake, man!
User avatar

S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:45 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Uh...WHAT?

So what you're saying, again, is that "people saying the concept is executed very poorly" is fact, while me saying "the concept as presented has been executed just fine" is...just an incorrect opinion? Based on a straw man argument that I created?

That's just ridiculous. That's a joke.

You saying "it's executed very poorly" is an opinion. There could be 500 people saying that sentence, and it's still AN OPINION. Just like me saying, "oh, wait. I think it's good, because of this, this and this. It was explained here. This trope has been used here. So on and so forth."

Yeah, you know what? Black Panther fell down some stairs and broke his neck. While fleeing from bunch of killer robots who are wiping out humanity, in a dilapidated building.

That could never happen. The infallible Black Panther would...what, again? Escape the horde of killer robots? And do...what?

I'm not creating some straw man. I'm saying that whether Black Panther dies in a fucking stairwell or gets his head blown off like Steve Rogers or gets blown the fuck up like Luke Cage or gets his brains blown out like She-Hulk IS THE SAME GODDAMN THING.

THEY'RE ALL DEAD, BECAUSE ULTRON WON. PERIOD.

That's the story, Jude! For fuck's sake, man!


No, that's the concept. The story being told is a piece of shit.
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guitarsmashley

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby guitarsmashley » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:47 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
No one is complaining about the concept of the story. On the one hand, there is YOU insisting that this story concept is the ONLY possible story that can be told with Ultron anymore, and insisiting that is inevitable that this story be told, and people saying THAT is ridiculous, which is not the same thing.

On the other hand, you have people saying the concept is fine, but executed very poorly, which it is.

You're ranting against a straw man argument of your own construction, to which I will reply, Black Panther trips down a flight of stairs and dies.


And Luke Cage shits himself. Come on people how is no one else running with this other than me...oh.

MikeinLA

Rorshach Test Subject

Postby MikeinLA » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:48 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Twigg, I swear to God, you'd think we were talking about Doctor Doom or the Red Skull; characters who "live and breathe" and "want something."

Ultron's just a robot, man. Just an evil robot/programming. That's all it is.



The Red Skull is complicated? I love the character, but he isn't exactly deep. He a fascist that hates Captain America. Ultron at least has his "family" ties to the Avengers writers can explore.
User avatar

ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:49 am

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
No, that's the concept. The story being told is a piece of shit.


Oh, OK! You're right! Can't believe I didn't see that until now!
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:51 am

I know I’m alone on the internet in enjoying this series, but I think it’s a genuinely interesting crossover and this penultimate issue was probably the best one yet. In the aftermath of the double-helicarrier explosion (which is awesome), everyone in the Starkguard alternate reality is dead, except for ‘our’ Wolverine (duh) and Iron Man. Iron Man gives Wolverine a lecture about what happens when you fuck with the time-travel, which I’m sure is packed full of teasers for the future, especially with the amount of time-travel going on in other comics like All-New X-Men and Fantastic Four.

Wolverine decides to travel back in time again to rectify his mistakes, and so we get 2 Wolverines! It’s like a Marvel money-man’s wet dream, perhaps they should get a Wolverine Team-Up book where they just hang out and stab shit? But nope. Wolverine convinces himself (ow, time-travel hurts my brain) not to kill Hank Pym, and there’s an even an interesting character point about Wolverine’s past that’s new to me, who the heck is Charlene Baumgartner? Given that Bendis is now writing X-Men, I’m sure that’s going to be important down the line.

The solution to the problem here is kind of weird to me, they decide that Pym has to build Ultron as normal, but build a fail-safe in there so they can stop the events of this series. But in order to make sure history continues as normal and Pym doesn’t use the failsafe too soon, he has to make himself forget. How the heck is going to do that? It’s not explained here, and we’re not even sure that he’s succeeded. We see him build Ultron, but could the Wolverines and Sue Richards be headed back to the same mess they left behind? Speaking of the two Wolverines, to resolve the paradox, one of them kills the other and leaves them in the Savage Land.

This raises a whole lot of interesting questions. We now know that there definitely is a way to kill Wolverine, but seemingly it’s a secret and only he knows it. And what happens if someone were to discover the skeleton of the dead Wolverine in the present? How does the survivor explain that? There have been a lot of rumours swirling around that Marvel are actually planning to kill off Wolverine, so this issue could be the first step in that direction. There’s a lot to wrap up in #10 of this series, and I’m excited to see what goes down, how the hell does Pym stop this, what does Angela have to with it? Will Wolverine actually die? Man, I think even some of the haters may be excited really. Go on, admit it, this is a safe place.
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IvCNuB4

Staff Writer

Postby IvCNuB4 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:58 am

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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:07 am

Punchy wrote:and there’s an even an interesting character point about Wolverine’s past that’s new to me, who the heck is Charlene Baumgartner? Given that Bendis is now writing X-Men, I’m sure that’s going to be important down the line.

just guessing here, but i'd be willing to bet she's not important, other than that she's probably the first "somebody else's redhead" that Wolvy did the no-pants dance with. future Wolvy #2 was proving to future Wolvy #1 that he really was him by sharing the closely-guarded secret that only real-Wolvy would know: what poor slatternly wench took his virginity.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:13 am

chap22 wrote:just guessing here, but i'd be willing to bet she's not important, other than that she's probably the first "somebody else's redhead" that Wolvy did the no-pants dance with. future Wolvy #2 was proving to future Wolvy #1 that he really was him by sharing the closely-guarded secret that only real-Wolvy would know: what poor slatternly wench took his virginity.


Hey, I would consider finding out who Wolverine's first love was to be important.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:14 am

Punchy wrote:
Hey, I would consider finding out who Wolverine's first love was to be important.

I never said anything about "love".
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:24 am

chap22 wrote:just guessing here, but i'd be willing to bet she's not important, other than that she's probably the first "somebody else's redhead" that Wolvy did the no-pants dance with. future Wolvy #2 was proving to future Wolvy #1 that he really was him by sharing the closely-guarded secret that only real-Wolvy would know: what poor slatternly wench took his virginity.


It's definitely that.

Punch you're just giving Bendis a little more credit, as usual.

If you keep up this way you're going to be able to write the review before the next series comes out :D

This might be the most unoriginal event story wise that I've ever read.

Hab
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:25 am

habitual wrote:
It's definitely that.

Punch you're just giving Bendis a little more credit, as usual.

Hab


We'll just have to wait and see.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:41 am

I am glad I dropped this. No idea what I will pick up next.
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guitarsmashley

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby guitarsmashley » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:42 am

Jubilee wrote:I am glad I dropped this. No idea what I will pick up next.


I'd say herpes but well,

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