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Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoilers)

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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:52 am

chap22 wrote:Marvel's history is filled with artificial beings who develop emotion and personalities, not lose them. from the OG Torch to Ultron to Vizh to Jocasta and on down the line. why does he necessarily HAVE to change course and lose that as he evolves?


Oh Chappy - is it any wonder you forgot when Vision lost his emotions? I know how much you loved this run... :-D
Image
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:56 am

Punchy wrote:The solution to the problem here is kind of weird to me, they decide that Pym has to build Ultron as normal, but build a fail-safe in there so they can stop the events of this series. But in order to make sure history continues as normal and Pym doesn’t use the failsafe too soon, he has to make himself forget. How the heck is going to do that? It’s not explained here, and we’re not even sure that he’s succeeded.

If you don't know the original story, once Ultron became self aware he attacked and overcame Pym. Ultron then used an early encephalo-ray to make Pym forget the encounter. Pym later used a memory recaller device he created to return his memories of said encounter.

So, my guess is that Pym probaly built the encephalo-ray into Ultron for the purpose of making him forget.

Which could mean that because of the time tampering, the menace that will be/is/was Ultron isn't Pym's fault but rather Wolverines. After all, we don't know that Wolverine wasn't there in the original timeline.

Punchy wrote:This raises a whole lot of interesting questions. We now know that there definitely is a way to kill Wolverine, but seemingly it’s a secret and only he knows it. And what happens if someone were to discover the skeleton of the dead Wolverine in the present? How does the survivor explain that? There have been a lot of rumours swirling around that Marvel are actually planning to kill off Wolverine, so this issue could be the first step in that direction. There’s a lot to wrap up in #10 of this series, and I’m excited to see what goes down, how the hell does Pym stop this, what does Angela have to with it? Will Wolverine actually die? Man, I think even some of the haters may be excited really. Go on, admit it, this is a safe place.

I'd rather see Wolverine tried, conicted and sentenced to 1359 (or however many people he's murdered) consecutive life sentences.

Another paradox - And how does Pym explain his guts and arms being slashed?
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:57 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:I do advocate those things, and it's why I am so adamant about a few things about this series.

Just look at Ultron over the years, in this series. Just put this series aside, and look at what he has done over the years.

He's a self-aware robot who is brilliant, doesn't just have cognitive function but actually the ability to think, plot, plan and build.

This sentient robot who can't be killed, in an indestructible body, who wants to kill the Avengers and all humanity, built the Vision and Jocasta. On ANYBODY'S list of most powerful Avengers, the Vision is easily, what, Top 5 or 6? Depending on who you ask, maybe even Top 2 or 3?

OK. Not only have we established that Ultron HIMSELF can't be killed, he's capable of creating things that are more powerful than 99 percent of the Avengers who serve! While yes, the Vision and Jocasta betrayed him -- and I'm not saying that those particular beings could be replicated, because they were unique -- but why not just build more robots without compassion, without compunction, without mercy?

And Doctor Doom is smarter, more powerful and has more robots - so the obvious thing to do is make a story so he doesn't exist. Right?

ElijahSnowFan wrote:Oh, wait. That's what he did, WHEN HE KILLED THE WORLD.


He did a crappy job of it then as he still loses in the end (and because of the timey whimey - he loses without 14 issues bleakness).
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:57 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:I truly feel this is where Ultron is as a concept. I like the past stories, I own them or have read them in some way shape or form, and there just isn't anything left with Ultron. Not anymore.

I look forward to the next Ultron story (which WILL happen). :-D
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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:57 pm

chap22 wrote:I never said anything about "love".


Jason Aaron wrote:"Wolverine has two dicks," replied Jason Aaron solemnly. "One for fucking and the other for lovemaking."


Marvel and DC Planning Explicit Gay Sex Events
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:03 pm

Amoebas wrote:I look forward to the next Ultron story (which WILL happen). :-D


No kidding.

ESF I really have no idea where you're coming from in terms of good Ultron stories being exhausted. The idea of A.I. in storytelling is about as rich as you can get when it comes to types of stories you can tell.

Hab
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:04 pm

Amoebas wrote:
Oh Chappy - is it any wonder you forgot when Vision lost his emotions? I know how much you loved this run... :-D
Image

I didn't forget it (as much as i'd like to forget that utterly shit run :wink: ), but that's a different case. Vision didn't lose his emotions because he "evolved" past them...he lost them because they were physically taken from him. and yet even then, he evolved again to regain them over time.
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:39 pm

Punchy wrote:And what happens if someone were to discover the skeleton of the dead Wolverine in the present? How does the survivor explain that?


The survivor won't have to explain it because the skeleton won't exist in the present. Once the "real" Wolverine returns to the present, he will have completely negated the skewed timeline where he succeeded in killing Hank Pym and created the Starkguard universe. It's like the end of the Age of Apocalypse where aged version of Bishop who lived through the skewed AoA timeline prevents Legion from killing Xavier in the past and then ceases to exist in front of his younger self because the Age of Apocalypse technically never took place in the regular Marvel Universe timeline.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:15 pm

I believe Melm said elsewhere he heard a rumour at a con or something bout a story to kill off Wolvie.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:16 pm

Grayson wrote:
The survivor won't have to explain it because the skeleton won't exist in the present. Once the "real" Wolverine returns to the present, he will have completely negated the skewed timeline where he succeeded in killing Hank Pym and created the Starkguard universe. It's like the end of the Age of Apocalypse where aged version of Bishop who lived through the skewed AoA timeline prevents Legion from killing Xavier in the past and then ceases to exist in front of his younger self because the Age of Apocalypse technically never took place in the regular Marvel Universe timeline.


Aaaaah, time travel hurts my head.
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ElijahSnowFan

cheese

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:18 pm

Amoebas wrote:I look forward to the next Ultron story (which WILL happen). :-D


Ha! Oh, I know. I feel the same way about the Joker -- there's nothing really left to do with the character, but that certainly doesn't mean there won't be stories told. :wink:
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alaska1125

dINGO

Postby alaska1125 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:20 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:I believe Melm said elsewhere he heard a rumour at a con or something bout a story to kill off Wolvie.


Forgive my skepticism, but if they are planning the death of Wolverine (and many signs point to yes), he'll stay dead for aproximately the amount of time it takes to make a sandwich.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:27 pm

Punchy wrote:I know I’m alone on the internet in enjoying this series, but I think it’s a genuinely interesting crossover and this penultimate issue was probably the best one yet. In the aftermath of the double-helicarrier explosion (which is awesome), everyone in the Starkguard alternate reality is dead, except for ‘our’ Wolverine (duh) and Iron Man. Iron Man gives Wolverine a lecture about what happens when you fuck with the time-travel, which I’m sure is packed full of teasers for the future, especially with the amount of time-travel going on in other comics like All-New X-Men and Fantastic Four.

Wolverine decides to travel back in time again to rectify his mistakes, and so we get 2 Wolverines! It’s like a Marvel money-man’s wet dream, perhaps they should get a Wolverine Team-Up book where they just hang out and stab shit? But nope. Wolverine convinces himself (ow, time-travel hurts my brain) not to kill Hank Pym, and there’s an even an interesting character point about Wolverine’s past that’s new to me, who the heck is Charlene Baumgartner? Given that Bendis is now writing X-Men, I’m sure that’s going to be important down the line.

The solution to the problem here is kind of weird to me, they decide that Pym has to build Ultron as normal, but build a fail-safe in there so they can stop the events of this series. But in order to make sure history continues as normal and Pym doesn’t use the failsafe too soon, he has to make himself forget. How the heck is going to do that? It’s not explained here, and we’re not even sure that he’s succeeded. We see him build Ultron, but could the Wolverines and Sue Richards be headed back to the same mess they left behind? Speaking of the two Wolverines, to resolve the paradox, one of them kills the other and leaves them in the Savage Land.

This raises a whole lot of interesting questions. We now know that there definitely is a way to kill Wolverine, but seemingly it’s a secret and only he knows it. And what happens if someone were to discover the skeleton of the dead Wolverine in the present? How does the survivor explain that? There have been a lot of rumours swirling around that Marvel are actually planning to kill off Wolverine, so this issue could be the first step in that direction. There’s a lot to wrap up in #10 of this series, and I’m excited to see what goes down, how the hell does Pym stop this, what does Angela have to with it? Will Wolverine actually die? Man, I think even some of the haters may be excited really. Go on, admit it, this is a safe place.


Remember that Mignola story bout Wolvie being in the Savage Land and encounters Apocalypse? Apocalypse mocked him with an Adamantium skull, saying something bout how he was involved in its creation?

There you go, it's explained. Wolverines own skeleton was used at the prototype for his skeleton.
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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:28 pm

alaska1125 wrote:
Forgive my skepticism, but if they are planning the death of Wolverine (and many signs point to yes), he'll stay dead for aproximately the amount of time it takes to make a sandwich.
agreed, but it'll be cool if it happens and its Cyke that kills him.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:34 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:
Remember that Mignola story bout Wolvie being in the Savage Land and encounters Apocalypse? Apocalypse mocked him with an Adamantium skull, saying something bout how he was involved in its creation?

There you go, it's explained. Wolverines own skeleton was used at the prototype for his skeleton.


MY BRAAAAAAAAIIIIIINNNN

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