Advertisement

Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoilers)

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

guitarsmashley
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 16322
Likes: 282 posts
Liked in: 411 posts
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:53 pm
Title: Self Important


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby guitarsmashley » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:53 am

Punchy wrote:
He probably had his fill of that when he was a woman!


You think he gave up the butt?
doombug wrote:You really are the george carlin of the outhouse. that's fucking hilarious.


doombug wrote:and yeah, Yoni called it. :drunk



I feel like a condemned building with a brand new flag pole.
- Les Paul

Image

Advertisement

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1848
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 67 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:55 am

guitarsmashley wrote:
You think he gave up the butt?


And what you guys are saying, what we've seen most recently from the character really goes to my point of that there's nothing left to do, nothing at all, with Ultron. Nothing.

So you tell Age of Ultron and be done with it.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:04 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:Just look at Ultron over the years, in this series. Just put this series aside, and look at what he has done over the years.

He's a self-aware robot who is brilliant, doesn't just have cognitive function but actually the ability to think, plot, plan and build.

This sentient robot who can't be killed, in an indestructible body, who wants to kill the Avengers and all humanity, built the Vision and Jocasta. On ANYBODY'S list of most powerful Avengers, the Vision is easily, what, Top 5 or 6? Depending on who you ask, maybe even Top 2 or 3?

OK. Not only have we established that Ultron HIMSELF can't be killed, he's capable of creating things that are more powerful than 99 percent of the Avengers who serve! While yes, the Vision and Jocasta betrayed him -- and I'm not saying that those particular beings could be replicated, because they were unique -- but why not just build more robots without compassion, without compunction, without mercy?


OK, I know you'll appreciate this: it's long-winded rant time!

first of all, OK, let's clarify...Ultron's body is NOT indestructible. if it was, why are we on (approximate guess here, as I've lost count over the years) Ultron-23 at this point? don't tell me it's because he's constantly upgrading...he's not Tony Stark. Ultron upgrades because he gets destroyed...be it through hex bolts, vibranium arrows, vibranium knuckles, dudes made of pure ionic energy ragdoll-ing him until his internal circuits break, whatever...dude gets broken. because he's not always made of adamantium and even when he is, adamantium has weaknesses and vulnerabilities. the Avengers boast gods, synthezoids (who technically is more powerful than Ultron), ionic dudes, mutant witches, super-geniuses who can write computer code and viruses to counteract his non-physical threats, rich kings with access to other technological and natural wonders which can offset his physical strengths...I don't buy it. yeah, he's a badass. yeah he's powerful. and yeah the Avengers should never ever EVER take him lightly. but the Avengers have the people, abilities, and wherewithal to fight him.

as for the ability to plot, plan, think, learn from mistakes, etc...I didn't realize these were purely robotic characteristics. :P the Avengers can do that too, especially when you take into account the tactical and scientific geniuses they boast on their roster.

the building other robots thing...he's done that too. plenty of times. dozens and hundreds of merciless killer Ultron drones. but you have to remember...adamantium is RARE. it ain't like he can run down to Home Depot and pick it up by the crate. he has to save it for himself...the drones get lesser metals out of necessity. OTOH, you have to remember he didn't truly create Vision, he modified him. and Vizh betrayed him. so he tried a different model with Jocasta. who spurned him. and again with Alkhema. who betrayed him. he's since learned his lesson that any sort of sentient "thinking machine" he creates is eventually gonna turn on him, so no he just sticks with the drones. but the drones in the end are just robots. tough robots, yes. but simple robots nonetheless, and those are just target practice for Avengers.


lastly, you and Twigg bitch about Ultron being one-note (this should be your first, last and only necessary clue that you need to reconsider your argument: you're agreeing with Twigg, for God's sake), but he's really not: yeah he's a murderous robot intent on killing all humans, but there's more beyond just that. hell, he may have the worst set of daddy issues in the entire Marvel U, and that is saying something. he decries human emotion yet exhibits just as much by "living" for revenge on the Avengers, hating/loving Pym, wanting to surround himself with his own "family" via Vizh, Jo, Alkhema, Victor Mancha, etc. Mark 12 escaped programming to become "good." the beauty of Ultron is in his simplicity: his motives and intent are always constant, yet his methods and means are always different. how is that different from nearly any other Marvel villain?
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:06 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Twigg, I swear to God, you'd think we were talking about Doctor Doom or the Red Skull; characters who "live and breathe" and "want something."

Ultron's just a robot, man. Just an evil robot/programming. That's all it is.

okay, ESF, I don't know you, but after lo these many yeatrs of sharing internet message boards, I at least "internet-know" you, and come on...I KNOW you've read enough Avengers books to know that ain't true. at all.
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1848
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 67 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:15 am

chap22 wrote:okay, ESF, I don't know you, but after lo these many yeatrs of sharing internet message boards, I at least "internet-know" you, and come on...I KNOW you've read enough Avengers books to know that ain't true. at all.


At this point, particularly for this story, I do think that's what he is -- he's evolved past the "human emotion" and just wants us all dead.

I can't remember exactly when Bendis used him in Mighty Avengers a few years back, because it was so delayed when Frank Cho was on the art, but IIRC, that was pretty much where he was, correct? He was attempting to use Stark satellites to control weather patterns and exterminate us all? Isn't that what he was all about the last time he appeared?

I understand everything you wrote in your "long-winded post," and yes, I did appreciate it. :wink:

But at the same time, I truly feel this is where Ultron is as a concept. I like the past stories, I own them or have read them in some way shape or form, and there just isn't anything left with Ultron. Not anymore.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

BubbaKanoosh
User avatar
2009 Most Valuable Poster
 
Posts: 36229
Likes: 626 posts
Liked in: 865 posts
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:50 am
Formerly: BRBKanoosh


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:22 am

Ultron just wants to be loved, is that so wrong?

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:23 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
At this point, particularly for this story, I do think that's what he is -- he's evolved past the "human emotion" and just wants us all dead.

I can't remember exactly when Bendis used him in Mighty Avengers a few years back, because it was so delayed when Frank Cho was on the art, but IIRC, that was pretty much where he was, correct? He was attempting to use Stark satellites to control weather patterns and exterminate us all? Isn't that what he was all about the last time he appeared?

I understand everything you wrote in your "long-winded post," and yes, I did appreciate it. :wink:

But at the same time, I truly feel this is where Ultron is as a concept. I like the past stories, I own them or have read them in some way shape or form, and there just isn't anything left with Ultron. Not anymore.

you're using another Bendis story, where he turned Ultron into a chick just so Frank Cho could draw nipple-less naked boobs, as your primary citation?? I say thee nay, friend ESF. nay.

Ultron has been seen several times since then, such as in Annihilation Conquest and Slott's Mighty (where all the family issues were back to the forefront, wanting to marry Jocasta), etc. this may be the only story Bendis could write with Ultron (typical...he's ignored decades worth of characterization for every Avenger he's written, why not do the same for their primary villains as well, right?), but I refuse to believe, as you seem to, that there's nothing else to do with him other than a final blaze of glory followed by limbo.
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1848
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 67 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:39 am

chap22 wrote:you're using another Bendis story, where he turned Ultron into a chick just so Frank Cho could draw nipple-less naked boobs, as your primary citation?? I say thee nay, friend ESF. nay.

Ultron has been seen several times since then, such as in Annihilation Conquest and Slott's Mighty (where all the family issues were back to the forefront, wanting to marry Jocasta), etc. this may be the only story Bendis could write with Ultron (typical...he's ignored decades worth of characterization for every Avenger he's written, why not do the same for their primary villains as well, right?), but I refuse to believe, as you seem to, that there's nothing else to do with him other than a final blaze of glory followed by limbo.


Annihilation: Conquest. Oh, dear Lord. Awful on so many levels, except for the Star-Lord mini. I would hate to have to go back and re-read that; I couldn't remember which came first, that or Bendis/Cho.

While I don't mind Slott using the Jocasta/Ultron marriage/emotion trope, yes, I do believe that we are at "final blaze of glory/limbo time" with Ultron.

I love comics. I believe a man can fly. But at some point, just looking at Ultron...we're talking about the A.I. that evolves never getting to the point that it realizes that marriage is for humans?

There are plenty of examples of characters and concepts from the past that I would love to be explored now and well into the future. I do believe strongly in so many things from yesteryear.

But Age of Ultron...I get it. I get what Tom Breevort has said in his interview. I get what Bendis has presented in the series. And I've enjoyed it.

I just can't look at this series and say, "OMG it's the worst thing ever."

It's just not. Ultron's a robot that evolves. It's just not a leap for me to believe that the robot who isn't human, who has repeatedly plotted to kill the Avengers and hates humans, would evolve to the degree where he kills us all.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

BubbaKanoosh
User avatar
2009 Most Valuable Poster
 
Posts: 36229
Likes: 626 posts
Liked in: 865 posts
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:50 am
Formerly: BRBKanoosh


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:44 am

Viz got married, he ain't a human.

ESF, I never saw you as the closed mined type.

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:46 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Annihilation: Conquest. Oh, dear Lord. Awful on so many levels, except for the Star-Lord mini. I would hate to have to go back and re-read that; I couldn't remember which came first, that or Bendis/Cho.

While I don't mind Slott using the Jocasta/Ultron marriage/emotion trope, yes, I do believe that we are at "final blaze of glory/limbo time" with Ultron.

I love comics. I believe a man can fly. But at some point, just looking at Ultron...we're talking about the A.I. that evolves never getting to the point that it realizes that marriage is for humans?

There are plenty of examples of characters and concepts from the past that I would love to be explored now and well into the future. I do believe strongly in so many things from yesteryear.

But Age of Ultron...I get it. I get what Tom Breevort has said in his interview. I get what Bendis has presented in the series. And I've enjoyed it.

I just can't look at this series and say, "OMG it's the worst thing ever."

It's just not. Ultron's a robot that evolves. It's just not a leap for me to believe that the robot who isn't human, who has repeatedly plotted to kill the Avengers and hates humans, would evolve to the degree where he kills us all.

well, maybe that's the whole point, ESF...maybe that's the theme for Ultron, that evolution is the GAINING of emotion, not the loss thereof. go back to the dawn of story, you'll see tragic flaws throughout...that's Ultron's flaw, always has been. with the independent intelligence he evolved from Pym's simple A.I. concept, he also evolved human emotion, but not the self-awareness to realize it. look at damn near every villain in comics, or hell, fiction for that matter...isn't such a lack of self-awareness the downfall for like 90-95% of them? it is the real chink in his adamantium shell, not the creases or seams or joints...it's his in-grown emotions and illogical desires and moments that often lead to his defeat, because he has them but cannot (or simply will not) learn how to access them or utilize them.
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

BubbaKanoosh
User avatar
2009 Most Valuable Poster
 
Posts: 36229
Likes: 626 posts
Liked in: 865 posts
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:50 am
Formerly: BRBKanoosh


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:49 am

This is getting to nerdy for me, guys.

I'm
Out.

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:52 am

I do agree with you, however, that AoU is not the worst thing ever. good lord, I've read Amazons Attack, Final Crisis, Civil War...stuff that is truly offensively BAD. but this is nowhere near good either...it's on the next level up with slightly less-offensive dreck like House of M (which AoU basically is the same story when you get down to it).
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1848
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 67 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:55 am

chap22 wrote:well, maybe that's the whole point, ESF...maybe that's the theme for Ultron, that evolution is the GAINING of emotion, not the loss thereof. go back to the dawn of story, you'll see tragic flaws throughout...that's Ultron's flaw, always has been. with the independent intelligence he evolved from Pym's simple A.I. concept, he also evolved human emotion, but not the self-awareness to realize it. look at damn near every villain in comics, or hell, fiction for that matter...isn't such a lack of self-awareness the downfall for like 90-95% of them? it is the real chink in his adamantium shell, not the creases or seams or joints...it's his in-grown emotions and illogical desires and moments that often lead to his defeat, because he has them but cannot (or simply will not) learn how to access them or utilize them.


But I don't know, or think, that's a "realistic" chink in the armor for an A.I. that is meant to learn.

OK. I understand what you're saying, that A.I. evolution could mean the gaining of emotion.

But what if isn't? There are plenty of examples in fiction, like Skynet in the Terminator films or the Matrix/machines from that trilogy, who don't.

Humans barely survived those onslaughts -- hell, the entire premise of the Terminator films was time travel to prevent us from being wiped out.

BubbaKanoosh says I'm being close-minded, but how? This story isn't revolutionary. It didn't invent the wheel. The self-aware robot decided to kill us all. We went back in time to stop that from happening.

I don't see where it's harder than that, or where anyone who has seen Terminator or Matrix, where human beings are hiding and barely surviving and fighting, looks at this story as some ridiculous concept with bizarre execution.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan
User avatar
cheese
 
Posts: 1848
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 67 posts
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:49 pm
Title: I'm like Atrocitus at times


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:00 am

chap22 wrote:I do agree with you, however, that AoU is not the worst thing ever. good lord, I've read Amazons Attack, Final Crisis, Civil War...stuff that is truly offensively BAD. but this is nowhere near good either...it's on the next level up with slightly less-offensive dreck like House of M (which AoU basically is the same story when you get down to it).


Exactly -- Sweet Mother of God. Amazons Attack and Final Crisis...Jesus. I don't understand how more people are angry to this day about Final Crisis -- the rage AoU has gotten should be NOTHING compared to what that was.

As I've said, I absolutely recognize that AoU's not a great story. But for me, I get it, I understand the narrative completely.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

chap22
User avatar
YOU WILL NEED A NURSE
 
Posts: 21441
Likes: 32 posts
Liked in: 174 posts
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:08 pm
Location: Missi-by God-ssippi, a.k.a. Chapveria
Title: Pretentious curmudgeon


Re: Age of Ultron #9: Well, well. Nice job, Bendis! (spoiler

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:12 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:But I don't know, or think, that's a "realistic" chink in the armor for an A.I. that is meant to learn.

OK. I understand what you're saying, that A.I. evolution could mean the gaining of emotion.

But what if isn't? There are plenty of examples in fiction, like Skynet in the Terminator films or the Matrix/machines from that trilogy, who don't.

but now that's an apples to oranges argument. "these examples in other realms of fiction did it this way, so Ultron must logically go the same way." that's like saying, "well, after he figured out their plan, John McClane wiped out all the bad guys at the Nakatomi Tower by shooting them full of holes, so that's what Sherlock Holmes should do to Moriarty too."

Marvel's history is filled with artificial beings who develop emotion and personalities, not lose them. from the OG Torch to Ultron to Vizh to Jocasta and on down the line. why does he necessarily HAVE to change course and lose that as he evolves?
Image
rdrsfn82 wrote:Chap is right.

john lewis wrote:I got nothing but respect for [Chap]

jsalwen wrote:You're the man, Chap.

DMM wrote:Chap knows what he's talking about.

MoneyMelon wrote:chap is right about pretty much everything

GOSD wrote:chap FTW!

Ntikrst wrote:Chap's right

oogy wrote:All those quotes in your sig ain't lying.

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FaceBook [Linkcheck] and 76 guests

Advertisement
cron