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[Jubilee]

I could write a long winded post here about which I think is better.

But I think overall it can be summed up as

a) The newer era features better written comics.

b) The older era were allowed more freedom so the comics were more exciting.

[Victorian Squid]

Good article, Eli, although you did sort of answer your own question about the merits of comics of different decades including hyper-modern, and people's attachments to them. Having read some of Alan Moore's early works again recently, they are still better than most comics now or even Moore's current output.

[Eli Katz]

Good article, Eli, although you did sort of answer your own question about the merits of comics of different decades including hyper-modern, and people's attachments to them. Having read some of Alan Moore's early works again recently, they are still better than most comics now or even Moore's current output.

Thanks. Your observation about Moore raises an interesting issue about a writer's best years. Some authors put out their strongest work early -- they are geniuses from the start. Often, though, they burn out early and fail in later years to match the genius of their early selves. Hemingway, for example. Then you have the late-blooming writers, guys who struggle for years to enjoy publication and only improve as they get older. Dostoevsky, for instance.

In comics, Moore certainly fits into the Hemingway category. Are there any Dostoevskys in comics?

[Victorian Squid]

Thanks. Your observation about Moore raises an interesting issue about a writer's best years. Some authors put out their strongest work early -- they are geniuses from the start. Often, though, they burn out early and fail in later years to match the genius of their early selves. Hemingway, for example. Then you have the late-blooming writers, guys who struggle for years to enjoy publication and only improve as they get older. Dostoevsky, for instance.

In comics, Moore certainly fits into the Hemingway category. Are there any Dostoevskys in comics?

Clowes, who recently won an Eisner? I remember seeing him busing tables at a grimy vegan cafe in Wicker Park when Eightball was in its early run. It's good to see Wilson being recognized as the masterpiece it is.

[Jubilee]

Are we talking about mainstream superhero comics though, or writers like Moore and others? I mean Moore obviously goes against the topic, but I imagine a lot of indy writers do as well.

[Victorian Squid]

Are we talking about mainstream superhero comics though, or writers like Moore and others? I mean Moore obviously goes against the topic, but I imagine a lot of indy writers do as well.

Yeah but early in his career he wrote some of the best mainstream superhero comics.

[Victorian Squid]

While I was posting that, I simultaneously sold some Alan Moore books online.

that is some Grant Morrison-level magick right there.

[Eli Katz]

Are we talking about mainstream superhero comics though, or writers like Moore and others? I mean Moore obviously goes against the topic, but I imagine a lot of indy writers do as well.

Yeah, I wouldn't make the same points in the op-ed if I were talking about indie books. First of all, I'm not sure I've read enough '60s and '70s indie stuff to make broad generalizations about it. Second, what I have read from that era is damn good and holds up very well, but is so different from today's indie stuff that I'm not sure how to compare it. Third, I'd say that the art in indie comics has greatly improved over the decades. That's not to say there weren't some strong artists back in the day. But the indie art has really flourished and diversified since the '80s.

[BubbaKanoosh]

I could write a long winded post here about which I think is better.

But I think overall it can be summed up as

a) The newer era features better written comics.

b) The older era were allowed more freedom so the comics were more exciting.

Wow, I agree.

[Jubilee]

Wow, I agree.

Why wow you son of a bitch

[Victorian Squid]

Yeah, I wouldn't make the same points in the op-ed if I were talking about indie books. First of all, I'm not sure I've read enough '60s and '70s indie stuff to make broad generalizations about it. Second, what I have read from that era is damn good and holds up very well, but is so different from today's indie stuff that I'm not sure how to compare it. Third, I'd say that the art in indie comics has greatly improved over the decades. That's not to say there weren't some strong artists back in the day. But the indie art has really flourished and diversified since the '80s.

Eh, I can only agree with about half of that as generalizations. For one thing, once an "independent" book is distributed at the Diamond level, many of the books we're calling indies are pretty mainstream in terms of marketing, distribution, and to a large extent, story content as well.

There is a large body of work being made today and over the years since way back when where the distribution and marketing is on a much smaller scale, sometimes only one or two creators themselves, and you see so many, many comics being made in the same spirit as the '60s-'70s indie comix and cartoonists owing a great debt to those earlier artists, tons of them. They are not all great but they're out there in force--and they may not be represented at your local LCS.

[Eli Katz]

Eh, I can only agree with about half of that as generalizations. For one thing, once an "independent" book is distributed at the Diamond level, many of the books we're calling indies are pretty mainstream in terms of marketing, distribution, and to a large extent, story content as well.

There is a large body of work being made today and over the years since way back when where the distribution and marketing is on a much smaller scale, sometimes only one or two creators themselves, and you see so many, many comics being made in the same spirit as the '60s-'70s indie comix and cartoonists owing a great debt to those earlier artists, tons of them. They are not all great but they're out there in force--and they may not be represented at your local LCS.

Well, it's hard to define independent. Every year the OH does awards, we squabble over the definition. Is it the way a book is distributed? The way it is produced? The creators involved?

It may be the case that the terms "indie" and "mainstream" are not distinct categories as much as they are concepts on a sliding scale. If, say, Glamourpuss is 100 percent indie and Action Comics is 100 percent mainstream, maybe Vertigo, Icon, and Image books fall somewhere in between.

[alaska1125]

Thanks. Your observation about Moore raises an interesting issue about a writer's best years. Some authors put out their strongest work early -- they are geniuses from the start. Often, though, they burn out early and fail in later years to match the genius of their early selves. Hemingway, for example. Then you have the late-blooming writers, guys who struggle for years to enjoy publication and only improve as they get older. Dostoevsky, for instance.

In comics, Moore certainly fits into the Hemingway category. Are there any Dostoevskys in comics?

I'd disagree with the idea that Moore failed to match the genius of his earlier years. I'm not sure what he's up to lately, but stuff like Top Ten and Supreme did just as much to deconstruct stereotypical comic tropes as his earlier work.

[Amoebas]

One reason why we really don't see 'late bloomers' in comics is because if they sucked as early bloomers, who'd want to keep them around?

Still, Kurt Busiek started in the early 80's but didn't 'make it' until 1994's Marvels.

[Eli Katz]

One reason why we really don't see 'late bloomers' in comics is because if they sucked as early bloomers, who'd want to keep them around?

Still, Kurt Busiek started in the early 80's but didn't 'make it' until 1994's Marvels.

Busiek probably fits. I can't think of any others.

But on art, you see many illustrators getting better with age. Gil Kane's early Green Lantern stories lack the energy, depth, and detail of his mature work from the late '60s onward.

Barry Windsor Smith's work really changed and became much more stylish as he grew older. The difference between his Conan issues and his Weapon X work is stunning.

John Romita Jr. really jumped in quality when he started on Daredevil. His early work on ASM and X-Men was okay, but nothing special. He really came into his own on the DD series. And he did some of his best work in the '90s, his work on Thor being especially amazing. Too bad in recent years, especially since World War Hulk, his art has become so sloppy.