The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:04 am

Holland Oats wrote:
Me too, and I agree.

Bendis on street level heroes is awesome. His Daredevil is an iconic run. Even Spider-Woman was great.

His team books have been up and down, but so what? He's well over 100 issues of Avengers, combined, since he started by now -- right? I actually liked the first volume of New Avengers quite a bit, and the current run started out well with the Stuart Immonen arc and the future-arc in the main book.. it went off the rails because of all the event tie-ins, ultimately.

Not agreeing with you but I respect your opinion nonetheless.

by **Chris** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:05 am

What was bad about Moon Knight?

What was bad about Daredevil?

Have you read either, or just "flipped through"?

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:15 am

Holland Oats wrote:
I would like to know how Quesada drove Marvel into the ground and fed off the hate of the fans?

Marvel owned the 2000's. It was a brutal smackdown of DC for the past decade. And despite your feelings on the matter, the general consensus I've seen is that most people have liked the quality of the books as well.. as evidenced by those sales victories. Of course, there's some weird people who buy books only to complain about them online because they don't want holes in their collections, but those people are weird so they don't count.

Of course not. Marvel has always been the top dog comicwise-even when imbeciles are at the helm. Even from the 90's era, DC and other comicbook companies have always been second place to Marvel. Why? Because of very good marketing from tv, cartoons, toys, merchandise, etc. Marvel has had a good working model for several years. DC on the other hand's main advantage is the Batman franchise whereas Marvel has had Spiderman, X-Men, the Hulk, Blade, etc. Marvel for the most part will always be considered the be-all, end-all of comicbooks for the time being as when they have a really loyal and growing fanbase, they are good to go. That framework existed before Quesada came by the way.
And by the way, most comics I don't like I do not buy unless the good outweighs the bad-I have only bought a select few of AVX so far by the way. AVX #6 was an entertaining read but I didn't care for what they are doing to Cyclops for the most part. The guy may be dickhead but not some arrogant idiot who believes he can control the creature who killed his wife in the 80's.

by **Chris** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:16 am

draco x wrote:
Of course not. Marvel has always been the top dog comicwise-even when imbeciles are at the helm. Even from the 90's era, DC and other comicbook companies have always been second place to Marvel. Why? Because of very good marketing from tv, cartoons, toys, merchandise, etc. Marvel has had a good working model for several years. DC on the other hand's main advantage is the Batman franchise whereas Marvel has had Spiderman, X-Men, the Hulk, Blade, etc. Marvel for the most part will always be considered the be-all, end-all of comicbooks for the time being as when they have a really loyal and growing fanbase, they are good to go. That framework existed before Quesada came by the way.

Marvel was in bankruptcy before Quesada. :lol:

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:24 am

Holland Oats wrote:What was bad about Moon Knight?

What was bad about Daredevil?

Have you read either, or just "flipped through"?

I wasn't talking about Daredevil in my comments but about Moon Knight as before. And if you want me to get specific, well....

-The series made little mention of what happened to Marlene and why they broke up and the Echo thing was boring as hell
-Moon Knight having the personalities of Cap, Wolvie and Spidey seemed like a cheap marketing ploy. Whatever happened to his Jake and Steve personas
-Also where was Frenchie as well? Bendis never mentioned why he was never in the series
-The bad guys were nowhere as interesting as people like Bushman, Stained Glass Scarlet, Nephthys, Black Spectre or even his psycho brother Rand.
-I don't see Marc having a tv show exposing his life as Moon Knight as he as always tried to keep his ID secret up till this series. I would rather he had kept his millionaire Steve Grant persona as his public face
-As noted before, these examples just show Bendis never bothered to research or just dashed away all that made MK relevant.
Whether or not you agree, doesn't matter, but this is why I just skimmed through the series and never bought an actual issue.

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:29 am

Holland Oats wrote:
Marvel was in bankruptcy before Quesada.

Because Harras, Mackie and co. fucked up even worst than he did-I never will dispute that. The same could be said about how bad DC was doing until Didio came onboard.

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:33 am

Holland Oats wrote:
I would actually say editorial blunders and boneheaded moves were more blatant in the past. Have you actually read some of those older comics? Shit would change from issue to issue sometimes!

List some examples for me apart from the Harras in the 90's or the hate that Jim Shooter received in the 80s.

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:37 am

Holland Oats wrote:
I would actually say editorial blunders and boneheaded moves were more blatant in the past. Have you actually read some of those older comics? Shit would change from issue to issue sometimes!

Yes, I have by the way and most of the stories back then had something called original writing as opposed to some stuff nowadays. To me, sales don't determine how good a book is or not. The most that has changed nowadays is marketing strategies and not much else.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:54 am

Holland Oats wrote:What was bad about Moon Knight?

What was bad about Daredevil?

Have you read either, or just "flipped through"?

He really is Doppelganger Herald (I've been watching those episodes of HIMYM). He even makes assumptions about stuff he doesn't read.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:56 am

I miss what Marvel was before Quesada. If only there was a company that employed the same exact people while putting their heroes in unnecessary armor.

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:20 pm

The President wrote:
He really is Doppelganger Herald (I've been watching those episodes of HIMYM). He even makes assumptions about stuff he doesn't read.

I could never be Herald as those shoes are too big to be filled. Besides, I was created by Zechs himself if you don't remember. Aside from that, I did read Bendis's MK and it was almost as bad as Didio's Outsiders run at DC. :-D

by **draco x** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:22 pm

The President wrote:I miss what Marvel was before Quesada. If only there was a company that employed the same exact people while putting their heroes in unnecessary armor.

If you did you missed a lot, bro. But then again, I am dismissing your comment as sarcasm. :-D

by **alaska1125** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:42 pm

draco x wrote:
I could never be Herald as those shoes are too big to be filled. Besides, I was created by Zechs himself if you don't remember. Aside from that, I did read Bendis's MK and it was almost as bad as Didio's Outsiders run at DC.

Impossible.

by **draco x** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:49 pm

alaska1125 wrote:[/b]

Impossible.

Ok, fair enough, it was better than anything Didio has ever written-then again, a chimpanzee could write better stories than Didio as well.

by **Dragavon** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:54 pm

draco x wrote:
Ok, fair enough, it was better than anything Didio has ever written-then again, a chimpanzee could write better stories than Didio as well.

To even compare Bendis's MK to DiDidio's Outsiders is like Zechs level insanity. I didn't enjoy MK but I can acknowledge it was a decent story.