The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **habitual** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:40 pm

BlueMole wrote:
Thank you for volunteering, great grammatician of San Jose. Please send your edits to Jude or SuperginraiX via PM. I'm glad you're finally putting your money where your endless stream of snide comments have been.

You need an editor as well

Hab

by **dairydead** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:40 pm

BlueMole wrote:
Thank you for volunteering, great grammatician of San Francisco. Please send your edits to Jude or SuperginraiX via PM. I'm glad you're finally putting your money where your endless stream of snide comments have been.

by **SuperginraiX** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:56 pm

dairydead wrote:
...completely ignoring the fact that the world's most prominent psychics were actually told BY the Phoenix that its planning on bringing destruction.

Yeah... that never happened. I'm assuming you're talking about Wolverine and the X-Men #9 when Kid Omega and Rachel were knocked unconscious by the Phoenix's approach. They didn't get any sense that the Phoenix was on a murder spree throughout the galaxy. All they got was the message that the Phoenix is coming to Earth. Rachel was a previous host to a portion of the Phoenix Force and handled herself JUST FINE for years. She wouldn't be overly concerned over the Phoenix, especially since in her native timeline, the Phoenix never went crazy.

She's be more concerned that the headmaster of the Jean Grey School for Gifted Youngsters was trying to kill a young lady for being a potential host for a cosmic entity she held for years.

by **Grayson** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:03 pm

SuperginraiX wrote:She's be more concerned that the headmaster of the Jean Grey School for Gifted Youngsters was trying to kill a young lady for being a potential host for a cosmic entity she held for years.

Yeah, it seems like that would bring up fond memories of the time that Shi'ar sent a death squad to murder her family because of the Grey's connection to the Phoenix.

by **BlueStreak** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:05 pm

habitual wrote:
You need and editor as well

Hab

Grammar Lord Hab I has declared periods to be unnecessary and announced "and" to be an article now!

Punchy, tear out your punctuation keys!

There shall be no more periods on this site!

(I hope I used enough paragraph breaks).

by **habitual** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:11 pm

Sakie wrote:
Yeah, it seems like that would bring up fond memories of the time that Shi'ar sent a death squad to murder her family because of the Grey's connection to the Phoenix.

I don't get why everyone was so surprised that Rachel would do something for her father.

Hab

by **bkthomson** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:12 pm

BlueMole wrote:

Grammar Lord Hab I has declared periods to be unnecessary and announced "and" to be an article now!

Punchy, tear out your punctuation keys!

There shall be no more periods on this site!

(I hope I used enough paragraph breaks).

Yeah there is a context in the quote that is just too good not to point out.

by **habitual** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:16 pm

bkthomson wrote:
Yeah there is a context in the quote that is just too good not to point out.

I edited it right after I caught it. :lol:

And Blue you're the one that started the shit here :lol:

so stfu already.

Hab

by **Grayson** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:21 pm

dairydead wrote:Right now, he is painting the earth with a giant target based on a hunch he has,

It's a hunch in the same way that Captain America believes that the Phoenix is coming to Earth to destroy it. As I pointed out, Cyclops knows that Hope is very important and that if she isn't allowed to do whatever it is that she is supposed to do, then Earth is doomed. Cyclops also knows that Hope has been channeling the Phoenix. So you put two and two together and you can make a very reasonable guess that whatever it is that Hope is supposed to do involves the Phoenix.

completely ignoring the fact that the world's most prominent psychics were actually told BY the Phoenix that its planning on bringing destruction.

You say this but I aside from being told that the Phoenix was coming, I don't know what you're talking about. What comic did the Phoenix directly tell the physics that it was coming to Earth expressly for the purposes of destruction?

by **Grayson** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:28 pm

habitual wrote:I don't get why everyone was so surprised that Rachel would do something for her father.

Hab

Me either. I know that some people are hellbent on vilifying Scott but there are going to be people who are sympathetic to his cause. I would think that somebody who has a) experienced the powers of the Phoenix before and b) been hunted down by commandoes simply for that connection, would be apt to be supportive of the side that isn't trying to abduct and/or kill a girl for her possible connection.

by **ReturnoftheMack** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:32 pm

Sakie wrote:
It's a hunch in the same way that Captain America believes that the Phoenix is coming to Earth to destroy it. As I pointed out, Cyclops knows that Hope is very important and that if she isn't allowed to do whatever it is that she is supposed to do, then Earth is doomed. Cyclops also knows that Hope has been channeling the Phoenix. So you put two and two together and you can make a very reasonable guess that whatever it is that Hope is supposed to do involves the Phoenix.

You say this but I aside from being told that the Phoenix was coming, I don't know what you're talking about. What comic did the Phoenix directly tell the physics that it was coming to Earth expressly for the purposes of destruction?

The two hunches are not equal.

One is a hunch that more mutants will be created which is totally selfish.
The other hunch is "We will all die."

Again, the risk/reward is not equal.

If Cyclops' hunch was "the Phoenix will come to earth and create peace forever" then ok. But his thinking is "the Phoenix is coming and we can create more people of my race who are the next step in evolution (ie the Magneto argument).

Cap is saying "the Phoenix is coming to kill us all just like it has done to other planets."

Cap is basing his argument on something that has happened before. There is a precedence.

by **Grayson** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:51 pm

The President wrote:The two hunches are not equal.

One is a hunch that more mutants will be created which is totally selfish.

It's a hunch that he has based on the fact that he absolutely knows what happens to the Earth if Hope is not allowed to succeed. The Phoenix has come to Earth multiple times in multiple hosts and it has never destroyed the Earth. In fact, the last time Jean Grey had the Phoenix, she successfully used it to stop Xorn from turning the Earth on it's axis. Rachel Grey used the Phoenix countless times heroically. Who is to say that Hope could not use the Phoenix to do exactly what Scott thinks it will?

The other hunch is "We will all die."

Don't forget the ridiculous idea of tricking the Phoenix into leaving the Earth alone by taking Hope off world. If the Phoenix is hellbent on destroying Earth, it's going to do it whether Hope is on the planet or not. However, if she is on the planet, then there is always the chance that Cyclops is right.

Again, the risk/reward is not equal.

You're right. Because Cyclops absolutely knows that the Earth is doomed if Hope fails. On the other hand, taking Hope off planet is a one in a million chance the Phoenix will alter it's course and follow...oh yeah, it also selfishly endangers anything that is unfortunate enough to be between where the Phoenix is now and where they plan on taking Hope.

by **dairydead** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:07 pm

SuperginraiX wrote:Yeah... that never happened. I'm assuming you're talking about Wolverine and the X-Men #9 when Kid Omega and Rachel were knocked unconscious by the Phoenix's approach. They didn't get any sense that the Phoenix was on a murder spree throughout the galaxy. All they got was the message that the Phoenix is coming to Earth. Rachel was a previous host to a portion of the Phoenix Force and handled herself JUST FINE for years. She wouldn't be overly concerned over the Phoenix, especially since in her native timeline, the Phoenix never went crazy.

She's be more concerned that the headmaster of the Jean Grey School for Gifted Youngsters was trying to kill a young lady for being a potential host for a cosmic entity she held for years.

Quentin Quire: "Things are definetely gonna burn..." *image of an exploding planet*

That was good enough for Hank to want to destroy the phoenix in space. If the smartest Xmen thinks your plan is stupid without even a second thought, then your plan is probably stupid.

by **Grayson** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:17 pm

dairydead wrote:That was good enough for Hank to want to destroy the phoenix in space. If the smartest Xmen thinks your plan is stupid without even a second thought, then your plan is probably stupid.

Yeah but Hank is also the least impartial member of either the X-Men or the Avengers when it comes to Scott. If he gets a chance to go against Scott, he takes it and then he calls him to gloat about it.

Also, about Quentin...he is a sociopathic little shit. If he said "things are going to burn" it may very well be because he is going to attempt to be the one instigating it. Quentin is a perfect example of what happens when you abuse the Phoenix powers. In fact, this probably wouldn't even be an issue if he hadn't destroyed the containment pod that the X-Men had created to contain the Phoenix the last time it was on Earth.

by **SuperginraiX** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:34 pm

dairydead wrote:
Quentin Quire: "Things are definetely gonna burn..." *image of an exploding planet*

That was good enough for Hank to want to destroy the phoenix in space. If the smartest Xmen thinks your plan is stupid without even a second thought, then your plan is probably stupid.

OK, points for you on Quentin. That COULD have been interpretted that way. I don't think that was what Quentin was seeing, though. I think the Phoenix destroying a planet was more to show US what the Phoenix was up to and what Quentin saw was what was shown in the panel where he DOES see the Phoenix... which is just a giant raging firebird in space.

But he could have seen the planet blowing up, maybe.

I still don't think Hank was influenced by any of that. He heard his Phoenix alarm go off, talked to Captain America, and leaped at the chance to stop the Phoenix from reaching Earth. Even if the Phoenix wasn't blowing up planets, this is exactly what the Avengers should be doing. The Phoenix as previously depicted isn't the sort of cosmic entity that blows up anything in it's path but that doesn't mean you want it on your planet.

When Hank and the rest of the Space Avengers get further in outer space, then they all know what the Phoenix Force is doing and at that point stopping the thing is the best idea ever. The undoubtedly relay that intel back to Earth, too, so the Avengers SHOULD know right about now, depending on how long it takes to send a message through space. I just don't think they knew when things started out and, other than Magneto, Cyclops and crew should have no idea. And Magneto? It doesn't seem like AvX VS. is actually happening in continuity. Go Marvel.