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[BubbaKanoosh]

Anyone else enjoy the doctor breaking down Wolverine's fall at the end of the issue (via the Marvel AR app)?

I don't do that AR stuff, what doctor?

[GLX]

I don't do that AR stuff, what doctor?

Marvel hired a doctor to break down what injuries Wolverine suffered after getting kicked off the quinjet.

[ReturnoftheMack]

Did Captain America dismiss mutant issues as something not worth his time?

No. Again, it's like you read a different comic.



That Cyclops is quite a guy.

Did Cyclops ask him to leave the island? A place the U.N. considers its own country"?

I don't remember the UN considering Utopia its own country TBH. I even looked it up and couldn't find it. All I found was Quire's attack on them and them using Sentinels to attack. But regardless, if the fate of the world is at stake, I could care less about sovereignty.

Did Captain America threaten to take Hope from the island with no ifs, ands, or buts about it?

Actually, there were ifs, ands and buts. He tried to be diplomatic till Cyclops pushed him. Cyclops also attacked Cap without any knowledge that the Avengers were there.

And talking about no "ifs, ands or buts":



He looked ready to negotiate there, right?

[Grayson]

I don't remember the UN considering Utopia its own country TBH. I even looked it up and couldn't find it. All I found was Quire's attack on them and them using Sentinels to attack. But regardless, if the fate of the world is at stake, I could care less about sovereignty.

It was during Dark Reign and the whole Dark Avengers/X-Men crossover. If I remember correctly, after the X-Men raised Utopia to the surface Scott declared Utopia it's own sovereign nation to prevent Norman Osborne from following them and continuing his assault.

Actually, there were ifs, ands and buts. He tried to be diplomatic till Cyclops pushed him. Cyclops also attacked Cap without any knowledge that the Avengers were there.

Let's see, Captain America just appears on a beach in Utopia in costume with no sign of any mode of transportation. This is an island filled with the most powerful telepaths on Earth plus who knows what type of monitoring equipment built by X-Club. It is completely naive to believe that Scott didn't know that the Helicarrier was there and that the Avengers were waiting within.

And Captain America wasn't doing a good job of being diplomatic. Instead of asking for Scott's help first or as I have said before, taking a scientific team to Utopia and offering to help, he went to Utopia and immediately asked that Scott turn Hope over to his custody. If I were Scott, I would have been insulted. Here Scott is, the guy that has been ground zero almost every time the Phoenix has been involved and he is being told by a guy who has never had any personal experience with the entity how the situation is going to be handled. Worse yet, the fate of a very important citizen of the island nation that he is in charge of is being decided without any type of consultation.

Where exactly is the diplomacy in that?

[dairydead]

It was during Dark Reign and the whole Dark Avengers/X-Men crossover. If I remember correctly, after the X-Men raised Utopia to the surface Scott declared Utopia it's own sovereign nation to prevent Norman Osborne from following them and continuing his assault.



Let's see, Captain America just appears on a beach in Utopia in costume with no sign of any mode of transportation. This is an island filled with the most powerful telepaths on Earth plus who knows what type of monitoring equipment built by X-Club. It is completely naive to believe that Scott didn't know that the Helicarrier was there and that the Avengers were waiting within.

And Captain America wasn't doing a good job of being diplomatic. Instead of asking for Scott's help first or as I have said before, taking a scientific team to Utopia and offering to help, he went to Utopia and immediately asked that Scott turn Hope over to his custody. If I were Scott, I would have been insulted. Here Scott is, the guy that has been ground zero almost every time the Phoenix has been involved and he is being told by a guy who has never had any personal experience with the entity how the situation is going to be handled. Worse yet, the fate of a very important citizen of the island nation that he is in charge of is being decided without any type of consultation.

Where exactly is the diplomacy in that?

I'll ask again, how exactly does the fact that Scott has seen the phoenix up close more times than *some* avengers make him any more credible than someone who has been tracking the Phoenix that has been bulldozing its way through the galaxy? Its not like the people living in the marvel universe couldn't get educated about the phoenix either.

[ReturnoftheMack]

It was during Dark Reign and the whole Dark Avengers/X-Men crossover. If I remember correctly, after the X-Men raised Utopia to the surface Scott declared Utopia it's own sovereign nation to prevent Norman Osborne from following them and continuing his assault.

That still doesn't mean the UN recognized Utopia. Was that confirmed anywhere?

Let's see, Captain America just appears on a beach in Utopia in costume with no sign of any mode of transportation. This is an island filled with the most powerful telepaths on Earth plus who knows what type of monitoring equipment built by X-Club. It is completely naive to believe that Scott didn't know that the Helicarrier was there and that the Avengers were waiting within.

And Captain America wasn't doing a good job of being diplomatic. Instead of asking for Scott's help first or as I have said before, taking a scientific team to Utopia and offering to help, he went to Utopia and immediately asked that Scott turn Hope over to his custody. If I were Scott, I would have been insulted. Here Scott is, the guy that has been ground zero almost every time the Phoenix has been involved and he is being told by a guy who has never had any personal experience with the entity how the situation is going to be handled. Worse yet, the fate of a very important citizen of the island nation that he is in charge of is being decided without any type of consultation.

Where exactly is the diplomacy in that?

There's a lot of conjecture in your first paragraph. We can't assume Cyclops knew all that because it was never said.

Actually, Cap was completely diplomatic. He went to talk to Scott man-to-man and leader-to-leader and Scott jumped down his throat. Then he said "we need to find a solution" meaning "together." And let's not forget Scott's action towards Children's Crusade. He's lucky Cap didn't just nuke Utopia.

And how exactly is the fate of every person on Utopia affected? How is making more mutants something that is more important than the fate of 6 billion people? Mutants are a group with a genetic disorder. It's not a different race. It's like waiting for your messiah to create more dwarves or autistic people.

[ReturnoftheMack]

I'll ask again, how exactly does the fact that Scott has seen the phoenix up close more times than *some* avengers make him any more credible than someone who has been tracking the Phoenix that has been bulldozing its way through the galaxy? Its not like the people living in the marvel universe couldn't get educated about the phoenix either.

And considering that Scott fought to save Jean's life the first time around shows that he's too attached. Let's not forget Jean (or what we thought was Jean) killed herself the first time around. Scott is actually making the same mistake again. First it was the Shiar, now the Avengers.

[habitual]

There have been multiple individuals show up from the future stating that Hope is not only the mutant messiah, one even points out that if the Avengers are allowed to win everyone on Earth dies.

It's a no-brainer at this point that Scott has enough confirmation that the Avengers should not be allowed to take Hope, besides the other reason that they have zero authority to take her, which even Tony points out.

Hab

[ReturnoftheMack]

There have been multiple individuals show up from the future stating that Hope is not only the mutant messiah, one even points out that if the Avengers are allowed to win everyone on Earth dies.

It's a no-brainer at this point that Scott has enough confirmation that the Avengers should not be allowed to take Hope, besides the other reason that they have zero authority to take her, which even Tony points out.

Hab

Of course they have the authority. It's a national security issue.

Also, if Cyclops was a good leader, he would call a press conference/security council meeting/etc. and let someone else know that "our only hope at saving the world from this planetwide threat is this girl that lives on Utopia. We will cooperate with the Avengers, the military and the Fantastic Four to solve this threat."

Instead, he attacks Captain America.

[habitual]

Of course they have the authority. It's a national security issue.

Also, if Cyclops was a good leader, he would call a press conference/security council meeting/etc. and let someone else know that "our only hope at saving the world from this planetwide threat is this girl that lives on Utopia. We will cooperate with the Avengers, the military and the Fantastic Four to solve this threat."

Instead, he attacks Captain America.

National Security?

The Avengers work for the US government?

I think that's a stretch, so does Tony.

Korvac isn't a national security threat?

Is Cap reporting to Wolfowitz?

Hab

[ReturnoftheMack]

National Security?

The Avengers work for the US government?

Well they did report to the President.

I think that's a stretch, so does Tony.

Korvac isn't a national security threat?

Is Cap reporting to Wolfowitz?

Hab

Was anyone hiding Korvac?

[habitual]

Well they did report to the President.


Was anyone hiding Korvac?

I think the Avengers pulling the national security card is about as valid as Saddam's WMD's.

And it was just Cap wasn't it that reported to the President?

What Cable told Scott alone should be enough counter evidence.

Hab

[habitual]

And I really think that Scott has a point, and for the same reasons the Avengers were sent packing during Civil War.

Hab

[draco x]

I buy Magik getting the drop on Strange on HER home turf. She's the lord demon queen of millions of monsters... plus a powerful sorceress.

On Earth, he'd cream her, in Limbo, she's got a shot.

Agreed. I like how we were fooled into believing that Strange won and Wolverine breaking the ruse.

[draco x]

The attempted stabbing of a teenaged girl might have had something to do with it. Or the fact that Wolverine used her to hunt for mutants. Or the blood relation.

Your pick.

Or better yet, Dan Didio is secretly writing this whole saga and giving us bad characterizations of established characters. As entertaining as I find the story, the character assassinations are so blatant.