The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Zechs]

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/new ... d-20120521

[Herald]

1. Another #1, despite the fact that this is the continuation of the story??

2. Yeah, "Grim and Grimmer" Batman and Robin doesn't work. One of these guys needs to lighten up.

3. I'm more concerned about the fate of the Outsiders, and since:

a) Looker can create force fields, so they didn't get blown up,
b) Looker is also getting a solo story, and
c) Katana, at least, was rebooted into the all-bland, robotic DCnU version...

...that part is pretty much meaningless.

[nietoperz]

That looks like a lot of fun. I'm really looking forward...

[GLX]

1. Another #1, despite the fact that this is the continuation of the story??

2. Yeah, "Grim and Grimmer" Batman and Robin doesn't work. One of these guys needs to lighten up.

1. #1 issues of existing titles are a part of the "New 52".

2. Damien is quite the entertaining character, imo.

[Herald]

1. #1 issues of existing titles are a part of the "New 52".

A story that's certainly going to feature the aforementioned pre-Flashpoint Katana, as well as the rest of the pre-Flashpoint Outsiders, isn't really part of the DCnU.

2. Damien is quite the entertaining character, imo.

A Robin is supposed to bring a lighter side to the Batman's world.
Having a Robin that manages to be even Darker and Edgier than Batman himself misses the point.
They may as well call the twerp "Az-Bats II".

[Eli Katz]

Herald, there is nothing serious or grim about those pages. They verge on satire and are rather amusing.

[Zechs]

1. Another #1, despite the fact that this is the continuation of the story??

2. Yeah, "Grim and Grimmer" Batman and Robin doesn't work. One of these guys needs to lighten up.

Um dude...



This was lighten up. The reaction of the two was hilarious.

[Herald]

Herald, there is nothing serious or grim about those pages.

Oh, really??

Batman talks about the fact that Damien has killed, AGAIN. And the kid's obviously not at all repentant about ANY of those incidents.

And how about these bon mots from the twerp:

"Do you intend to lecture me about this every time we're together? Grayson never felt the need to lecture me about anything when I was his partner. If you don't want me to be Robin, I'll find my own way."

"I don't know why you bothered to come back from the dead. We were fine without you. We had everything under control."

YEESH.

"Grim and GRIMMER"...
"Az-Bats II"...

The bit about "If you don't want me to be Robin..." especially has all the stench of "Jason Todd II: The New Botch".

Joker... get that crowbar ready...

[Eli Katz]

It's a comic book, Herald. If you quote lines out of context without considering how the style of the art affects the way readers are meant to interpret the lines, then you can make the book seem grim. The way that the dead guy is depicted head first in the pavement, it makes the death (and the rest of the pages) look cartoonish, not grim. Based on the preview, this book is meant to be darkly comedic.

You may not like that particular tone for a Batman and Robin story. I'm not really sure what tone you'd prefer. But given that there are a zillion Batman books on the market now, and a zillion more back issues of Batman stories, the world can probably make a little room for a darkly absurd Batman-Robin story, where Robin scowls in adolescent exasperation as he talks casually about the need to commit homicide.

And Herald, teenagers in real life often wish their parents dead. Teenagers say terrible things all the time. The joke in these preview pages is that heroic, tough Batman is reduced to being like any parent: he has to put up with a self-possessed little twerp for a son while the kid muddles through that horrible hormonal stage. I think it's a great feature to include in the Batman-Robin relationship. It makes the relationship both amusing and, on one level, realistic.

[Vic Vega]

This this an ongoing or a mini?

I forgot.

[Herald]

It's a comic book, Herald.

Here we go. Another fanboy uses the old "'It's a comic book...' therefore, we're not supposed to take anything in it seriously, no matter how serious the subject matter is!" excuse.

If you quote lines out of context without considering how the style of the art affects the way readers are meant to interpret the lines, then you can make the book seem grim.

The dialogue and the attitude in which it's said makes the CHARACTERS seem grim.
And grimmer.

The way that the dead guy is depicted head first in the pavement, it makes the death (and the rest of the pages) look cartoonish, not grim.

That happens at the END of the preview, AFTER "Az-Bats II" cycles through his whole "Grimmer than thou" schtick.

NOW who's "taking things out of context", hmm??

You may not like that particular tone for a Batman and Robin story.

Again, it's not about the story so much as it is about the relationship between Batman and his Robin. Again, BOTH characters are grim, with "Robin" actively trying to out-grim Batman. This Batman-Robin partnership has no balance whatsoever. Both weights are on the same side of Lady Justice's scale, causing the whole works to crash horribly onto the floor.

This sort of thing is what went wrong with Jason, what got him voted off the Bat-Cave.
And I'm not at all convinced it works any better now, especially since Damien out-grims Jason-as-Robin.

I'm not really sure what tone you'd prefer. But given that there are a zillion Batman books on the market now, and a zillion more back issues of Batman stories, the world can probably make a little room for a darkly absurd Batman-Robin story, where Robin scowls in adolescent exasperation as he talks casually about the need to commit homicide.

Which isn't the kind of thing Batman needs in a Robin.

And Herald, teenagers in real life often wish their parents dead.

Gee, didn't YOU say "This is a comic book"??
"Style of art", and all that??
Real life doesn't get "stylized art".
Therefore, real life must have nothing to do with this.

Can't have it both ways, buddy.
Either "this is a comic book", or this is just like real life.
Pick ONE.

Teenagers say terrible things all the time. The joke in these preview pages is that heroic, tough Batman is reduced to being like any parent: he has to put up with a self-possessed little twerp for a son while the kid muddles through that horrible hormonal stage.

Again, we already read this with post-Crisis Jason Todd.
This is the same kind of behavior that ultimately brought the crowbar down on Jason.

I remain:

[Herald]

Um dude...



This was lighten up. The reaction of the two was hilarious.

Um, dude...

...neither of them are smiling. And why would they?? To them, a man dying, no matter how "darkly comical" to the audience, is serious to this ever-serious duo. This is NOT "lighten up".

...neither of them is the light side for the other. Again, Damien is actively trying to out-grim Bruce. And that's not a difficult task at all for Young Mr. Killy McLovemurder.

[BubbaKanoosh]

I find it funny that you are using "fanboy" as a derogatory term, Herald.

[Cat-Scratch]

It's a comic book, Herald. If you quote lines out of context without considering how the style of the art affects the way readers are meant to interpret the lines, then you can make the book seem grim. The way that the dead guy is depicted head first in the pavement, it makes the death (and the rest of the pages) look cartoonish, not grim. Based on the preview, this book is meant to be darkly comedic.

You may not like that particular tone for a Batman and Robin story. I'm not really sure what tone you'd prefer. But given that there are a zillion Batman books on the market now, and a zillion more back issues of Batman stories, the world can probably make a little room for a darkly absurd Batman-Robin story, where Robin scowls in adolescent exasperation as he talks casually about the need to commit homicide.

And Herald, teenagers in real life often wish their parents dead. Teenagers say terrible things all the time. The joke in these preview pages is that heroic, tough Batman is reduced to being like any parent: he has to put up with a self-possessed little twerp for a son while the kid muddles through that horrible hormonal stage. I think it's a great feature to include in the Batman-Robin relationship. It makes the relationship both amusing and, on one level, realistic.

There's an end point for that?

[Herald]

I find it funny that you are using "fanboy" as a derogatory term, Herald.

I find it funny that you aren't addressing any of the issues with Damien that I brought up.

"Other than that unfortunate incident, how did you like THE PLAY, Mrs. Lincoln??"