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by **chap22** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:18 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:Damian as Robin will be over after this.

Oceanfront! Going cheap! Plus if you're in the business of buying bridges...

by **fieldy snuts** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:40 pm

chap22 wrote:Oceanfront! Going cheap! Plus if you're in the business of buying bridges...

Your overconfidence keeps making this that much more sweet :lol:

by **Juan Cena** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:09 am

chap22 wrote:I never said he was a cash cow, I said those are reasons why DC won't kill him or get rid of him.

Riddle me this: when he doesn't die, if he isn't Robin anymore, what do they do with him? Give him a new identity? That makes no sense for Damian. It worked for Dick b/c he had nearly 45 years of history when he graduated, and by then was an adult. Damian is still 10-11 and has been around for like 4 years, maybe 5. He makes sense as Batman's partner because Batman's still trying to teach him and protect him (mostly from himself). He's too young to go on his own. Robin is a brand. They're not gonna change the name to Batman & ________. They're absolutely not gonna put him on the shelf to bring in generic Harper "I've been in 1 issue + 2 panels" Row as a new Robin...

I can't believe any of you are buying this. No, wait a minute...I forgot who I'm talking to, Mr. Wally Wingman West.

Damian won't stay Robin because in the end, he's the antithesis of what Robin is supposed to be. Robin is the character that keeps Batman from going too far into the abyss and becoming more like his foes. (See "A Lonely Place for Dying") Damian was trained as an assassin. He's spoiled, self-centered, thinks he's superior to everyone (possibly even his father). If anything, his stint as Robin proves that.

As for Batman & _________, DC will probably bring back Tim and drop the "Red" from Red Robin. Problem solved. That's more logical than Harper Row being Batman anyhow.

by **chap22** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:14 am

Juan Cena wrote:

If you think Damian is still the antithesis of what Robin is supposed to be (if he ever was, which i'll dispute in just a second), then methinks you haven't actually been reading Tomasi's run. That's pretty much the whole point of that book: Batman taking in his son, who is admittedly pretty damaged goods, and teaching & training him, giving him a positive outlet for his darker tendencies to mold him into something better. And it's working...cracks have been showing in that "superior" attitude lately. He called Alfred "Alfred" instead of Pennyworth reently when he thought he was hurt; he did some incredibly thoughtful things for his dad in the B&R Annual (granted, he had some ulterior motives, but he still went above and beyond in what he did), he's complimented Dick numerous times, etc. he's learning. If you really think Bruce is going to give up on that particular mission when it's just starting to pay off, then again...oceanfront with a bridge!

And as far as what Robin is supposed to be, that's some nice flowery sentiment that Wolfman put forward in ALPoD, but that was never the reason why Robin existed until then. It ma be the reason Batman took in Tim in the wake of Jason's death, but it was not the reason he took in any other Robin. Robin existed because he saw another skilled youth who suffered as he did and wanted to give him a means to get justice, get it the right way, and prevent him from going down a darker path. That pretty much fits Damian to a T...or to an R, if you prefer.

by **Punchy** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:18 am

Damian as the antithesis of what Robin should be only works when he's paired with Dick Grayson as Batman, who's lightheartedness is the also the antithesis of what Batman should be. It was a flip of the traditional status quo, with Robin as the grim, violent one, and Batman as the lighter half of the Dynamic Duo.

Now that Bruce is back as Batman, Damian needed to, and has softened up, and it's been very interesting to see his evolution and slow journey towards true heroism.

by **chap22** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:11 am

Punchy wrote:Damian as the antithesis of what Robin should be only works when he's paired with Dick Grayson as Batman, who's lightheartedness is the also the antithesis of what Batman should be. It was a flip of the traditional status quo, with Robin as the grim, violent one, and Batman as the lighter half of the Dynamic Duo.

Now that Bruce is back as Batman, Damian needed to, and has softened up, and it's been very interesting to see his evolution and slow journey towards true heroism.

For once, Punchy is actually dead-on. Good job, kid!

by **Punchy** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:27 am

chap22 wrote:For once, Punchy is actually dead-on. Good job, kid!

Thanks

...I guess?

by **Juan Cena** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:06 pm

chap22 wrote:If you think Damian is still the antithesis of what Robin is supposed to be (if he ever was, which i'll dispute in just a second), then methinks you haven't actually been reading Tomasi's run. That's pretty much the whole point of that book: Batman taking in his son, who is admittedly pretty damaged goods, and teaching & training him, giving him a positive outlet for his darker tendencies to mold him into something better. And it's working...cracks have been showing in that "superior" attitude lately. He called Alfred "Alfred" instead of Pennyworth reently when he thought he was hurt; he did some incredibly thoughtful things for his dad in the B&R Annual (granted, he had some ulterior motives, but he still went above and beyond in what he did), he's complimented Dick numerous times, etc. he's learning. If you really think Bruce is going to give up on that particular mission when it's just starting to pay off, then again...oceanfront with a bridge!

And as far as what Robin is supposed to be, that's some nice flowery sentiment that Wolfman put forward in ALPoD, but that was never the reason why Robin existed until then. It ma be the reason Batman took in Tim in the wake of Jason's death, but it was not the reason he took in any other Robin. Robin existed because he saw another skilled youth who suffered as he did and wanted to give him a means to get justice, get it the right way, and prevent him from going down a darker path. That pretty much fits Damian to a T...or to an R, if you prefer.

I'm sure Tomasi will do an excellent job with Tim.

by **Zechs** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:40 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
I'm sure Tomasi will do an excellent job with Tim.

*looks at the mess Lobdell has left Tim in* Yeah Tomasi is gonna have to walk on water to fix that.

by **chap22** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:54 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
I'm sure Tomasi will do an excellent job with Tim.

You should be seeing that right after DC's new Dick Grayson, USMC + Wally Wingman team-up book.

by **Juan Cena** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:25 pm

chap22 wrote:You should be seeing that right after DC's new Dick Grayson, USMC + Wally Wingman team-up book.

Like I told Nieto: Get. New. Material.

by **chap22** » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:29 pm

Juan Cena wrote:
Like I told Nieto: Get. New. Material.

Get. Something. Right. Ever.

by **nietoperz** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:48 am

chap22 wrote:Get. Something. Right. Ever.

That's the thing. The new material will come naturally as soon as Nac stops insisting that every idiot notion that wafts through his head is DEFINITELY! WHAT! DC! WILL! DO! :lol:

by **MoneyMelon** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:10 pm

Tim shouldn't be Robin anymore.

The character has been pretty much ruined, but even if they cleaned up the mess somehow, he's moved on from being Batman's partner like Dick did when he became Nightwing. Becoming Robin again would feel like too much of a regression. I think his role is best kept to Teen Titans for now.

Personally, I started out absolutely loathing Damien but now I love the character. The fact that he's so wildly different from Dick or Tim is precisely what makes him interesting. He's the new blood the stagnant Batman books so desperately needed.

They've (Morrison and Tomasi) also done a great job of showing that Damien has it in him. He has that side that desperately wants to be the hero, in some ways on a more personal level than any of the other Robins.

by **chap22** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:14 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:Tim shouldn't be Robin anymore.

The character has been pretty much ruined, but even if they cleaned up the mess somehow, he's moved on from being Batman's partner like Dick did when he became Nightwing. Becoming Robin again would feel like too much of a regression. I think his role is best kept to Teen Titans for now.

Personally, I started out absolutely loathing Damien but now I love the character. The fact that he's so wildly different from Dick or Tim is precisely what makes him interesting. He's the new blood the stagnant Batman books so desperately needed.

They've (Morrison and Tomasi) also done a great job of showing that Damien has it in him. He has that side that desperately wants to be the hero, in some ways on a more personal level than any of the other Robins.

agreed 1000% on all of this, including the initial hatred ---> love i have for Damian's character. he's been a breath of fresh air to the Bat-family.