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[DMM]

I just don't understand the point of a "Daredevil" who isn't blind and doesn't have radar powers. That's why he's not afraid of the crazy stunts he pulls--because he can't see how high up he is and shit. It's not about the costume or the name; it's about the unique abilities of the (wo)man underneath the costume.

[Greg]

I just don't understand the point of a "Daredevil" who isn't blind and doesn't have radar powers. That's why he's not afraid of the crazy stunts he pulls--because he can't see how high up he is and shit. It's not about the costume or the name; it's about the unique abilities of the (wo)man underneath the costume.

T'Challa isn't adopting the Daredevil name. He's just watching over Hell's Kitchen.

[Marius665]

T'Challa isn't adopting the Daredevil name. He's just watching over Hell's Kitchen.

which is gay

[Greg]

which is gay

I didn't know watching over a hood had an orientation.

[Marius665]

I didn't know watching over a hood had an orientation.

you'd be surprised

[Benderbrau]

I didn't know watching over a hood had an orientation.

The hood. The black man's natural environment.


/Jude'd

[chap22]

He went to New York as a vigilante before, back when he first was in the Avengers. He had a secret identity as a teacher.

it literally amazes me that Punchy seems to be the voice of reason here.

let's everybody calm down a notch or two and think about some things here:

1) BP is not becoming Daredevil. he is becoming the star of a book called The Man Without Fear. big difference. T'Challa will still be T'Challa. he will still be the Black Panther. they're just taking him out of Wakanda and putting him back in the urban jungle, almost 1000% ASSUREDLY temporarily, to fill a void left by Daredevil's also almost 1000% ASSUREDLY temporary absence. Hercules didn't become the Hulk or fight the Hulk's fights or take on the Hulk's villains when he took over Incredible Herc, so why are we (and by "we" i mean you idiots of course) assuming that's what is happening here? now sure, seeing him take on Fisk could certainly be cool, but that doesn't mean he's going to the Kitchen just to knock heads with Bullseye, Gladiator, the Owl, Mr. Fear and Typhoid.

2) this is not unprecedented. BP has been a teacher in the ghetto, fallen in love, fought the Klan, hung at Avengers Mansion, beaten Mephisto's ass, and numerous other things all in NYC/America. too much Wakanda gets boring, too long away gets unrealistic. let the man travel a bit.

3) this is the perfect time to get back to BP's roots as a hero, not necessarily as a character. look, i love the Vibranium-weave costume, the Kimiyo cards, and all the other neat gadgets Priest gave him too. but overpowered Panther is, to me, less interesting than original Panther b/c he becomes too much like "black Batman" and too far away from what he was originally...a guy who KNEW he was badass enough to get by without all those toys and gadgets. putting him on the street-level with just his herb-enhanced skills and his wits should be fun for a while. and it should damn sure be better than the dude who armbarred the Surfer.

4) it's the perfect time to get him away from Wakanda. with the Vibranium gone, Wakanda is basically worthless in the eyes of the rest of the world. why attack a country with no resources? so the greatest fights it's fighting now are with itself. and sure, the job of a king should be to fix that. but as shown in Age of Heroes #4, Shuri's working on that stuff now. which leaves T'Challa free to get out and go do the superhero stuff, which makes for more fun comic action than settling a bunch of political/socioeconomic disputes all day long.

all that said, i am wary of a book with 2 creators i've never heard of. but T'Challa has long been one of my favorite characters, one whose book i've been basically unable to buy since Hudlin took over (i'm sure Maberry's fine, but the reek of stupidity was still too strongly ingrained in the status quo for me to try it), so i'll at least give this a look to see what direction they're going in.

[Benderbrau]

Oh snap! Strict hijacked Chap's account.

[Porcelain38]

You know when I stripped down my pull-list before I left for college I kept Daredevil because it was a "better or worse title" from the big two.

There are maybe a total of seven books which i always buy no matter what, and I can Daredevil coming of this list because of it. This really isn't even really Daredevil though is it? It's Man Without Fear. So...it would be ok to drop right?

[sdsichero]

Crap... Poor T'Challa... Poor Matt... They don't deserve being mistreated like this.

It's actually Echo in a Black Panther suit.

[sdsichero]

I just don't understand the point of a "Daredevil" who isn't blind and doesn't have radar powers. That's why he's not afraid of the crazy stunts he pulls--because he can't see how high up he is and shit. It's not about the costume or the name; it's about the unique abilities of the (wo)man underneath the costume.

[BlueStreak]

For those of you who haven't seen, the Outhouse is doing an interview with the writer.

You can ask questions here. the-news-stand/call-for-questions-david-liss-black-panther-man-without-t53366.html

[SilverPhoenix]

it literally amazes me that Punchy seems to be the voice of reason here.

let's everybody calm down a notch or two and think about some things here:

1) BP is not becoming Daredevil. he is becoming the star of a book called The Man Without Fear. big difference. T'Challa will still be T'Challa. he will still be the Black Panther. they're just taking him out of Wakanda and putting him back in the urban jungle, almost 1000% ASSUREDLY temporarily, to fill a void left by Daredevil's also almost 1000% ASSUREDLY temporary absence. Hercules didn't become the Hulk or fight the Hulk's fights or take on the Hulk's villains when he took over Incredible Herc, so why are we (and by "we" i mean you idiots of course) assuming that's what is happening here? now sure, seeing him take on Fisk could certainly be cool, but that doesn't mean he's going to the Kitchen just to knock heads with Bullseye, Gladiator, the Owl, Mr. Fear and Typhoid.

2) this is not unprecedented. BP has been a teacher in the ghetto, fallen in love, fought the Klan, hung at Avengers Mansion, beaten Mephisto's ass, and numerous other things all in NYC/America. too much Wakanda gets boring, too long away gets unrealistic. let the man travel a bit.

3) this is the perfect time to get back to BP's roots as a hero, not necessarily as a character. look, i love the Vibranium-weave costume, the Kimiyo cards, and all the other neat gadgets Priest gave him too. but overpowered Panther is, to me, less interesting than original Panther b/c he becomes too much like "black Batman" and too far away from what he was originally...a guy who KNEW he was badass enough to get by without all those toys and gadgets. putting him on the street-level with just his herb-enhanced skills and his wits should be fun for a while. and it should damn sure be better than the dude who armbarred the Surfer.

4) it's the perfect time to get him away from Wakanda. with the Vibranium gone, Wakanda is basically worthless in the eyes of the rest of the world. why attack a country with no resources? so the greatest fights it's fighting now are with itself. and sure, the job of a king should be to fix that. but as shown in Age of Heroes #4, Shuri's working on that stuff now. which leaves T'Challa free to get out and go do the superhero stuff, which makes for more fun comic action than settling a bunch of political/socioeconomic disputes all day long.

all that said, i am wary of a book with 2 creators i've never heard of. but T'Challa has long been one of my favorite characters, one whose book i've been basically unable to buy since Hudlin took over (i'm sure Maberry's fine, but the reek of stupidity was still too strongly ingrained in the status quo for me to try it), so i'll at least give this a look to see what direction they're going in.

1) That's a very good point, and I think that should be noted. In all of the blind anger (which I am guilty of in a way, too), I think people are forgetting that this is pretty much another Incredible Hulk to Hercules transistion, and it could provide the same result for T'Challa. Some might say that he doesn't really need what Hercules did (Evidence being The Black Panther Secret Invasion Arc that sold really well), but if it could win him more fans, then why not try it. Like I said in my previous post, Marvel is going to have to come guns-a-blazing, this can't be another patch job, or another stunt gimmick, which is getting to become a trend in their comics. Even if it is temporary (Though that's why some aren't liking this, they're worried about where Matt and T'Challa go from here, especially T'Challa.), it's got to matter, which is becoming a huge personal problem with Big 2 Superhero comics, for me. Character development is ignored, progress is flushed down the toilet for no good reason, which in turn creates an environment that almost nothing matters in Big 2 Superhero books anymore. This book cannot in any way fall into that trap.

2) I have very little problems with T'Challa playing outside of Wakanda, to be honest. However, I do have to ask the question, how is Wakanda unrealistic when the universe it's in is fundamentally unrealistic?

3) From what I've read of the Priest run (which is not a lot, sadly) I don't think T'Challa is too powerful. Sure he has a lot of gadgets, but isn't that how Kirby (the original creator) meant for the character to be? T'Challa comes from a highly advanced nation from the get go, why shouldn't he use some of his resources? As for your Black Batman comment, didn't Batman not become the Batman we know him as until the Bronze Age/Modern Age? Wouldn't that mean that Batman became the "White Black Panther?" Sure, the foundation may have been laid there from before, but I'm pretty sure that T'Challa had more Batgod in him in 1966, then Batman did.

4) Hasn't it been established before that Wakanda is more than just its Vibranium? Even if it lost the use of such a metal, wouldn't their country still be a formidable opponent due to its advances in science and technology. What's so interesting about a poor Wakanda? Isn't it a better statement to show a Self-Sustained Wealthy African Nation than one that's a stereotypical poor one? Shouldn't Wakanda stand out, even without its heart? Personally, I feel Marvel is doing a disservice if it doesn't rebuild Wakanda, as I feel there's nothing wrong with an African nation that has a crapload of swagger. Besides, there's so much division in that country that you have good story materials just from that.

With that said, I do feel you bring up quite a few good points, Chap. I just don't feel that they need to downplay the more kingly aspects of T'Challa to sell him to the direct market. I hate to say it, but T'Challa will always have his haters no matter what happens. Characters like him (and Cassandra Cain) are better sold outside of that market. Pandering to the close minded should not in anyone's business plan.

[chap22]

1) Like I said in my previous post, Marvel is going to have to come guns-a-blazing, this can't be another patch job, or another stunt gimmick, which is getting to become a trend in their comics. Even if it is temporary (Though that's why some aren't liking this, they're worried about where Matt and T'Challa go from here, especially T'Challa.), it's got to matter, which is becoming a huge personal problem with Big 2 Superhero comics, for me. Character development is ignored, progress is flushed down the toilet for no good reason, which in turn creates an environment that almost nothing matters in Big 2 Superhero books anymore. This book cannot in any way fall into that trap.

yeah, i'll certainly agree with that. but again, i think (despite how much i have lambasted Joey Cheese and the Frathouse of Ideas in the past), Marvel understands that. i keep looking at this in relation to its nearest (i hope) direct correlate: Incredible Herc. which IMO has been one of Marvel's very best books for the last 2 years, and avoided throughout its run every single one of those potential pitfalls you mention. i'm hopeful this will be in the same vein.

2) I have very little problems with T'Challa playing outside of Wakanda, to be honest. However, I do have to ask the question, how is Wakanda unrealistic when the universe it's in is fundamentally unrealistic?

i think you misread my post. what i said was it's boring to keep T'Challa in Wakanda ALL THE TIME, but what's unrealistic is to keep him away from Wakanda for too long as well. but IMO, as a superhero as well as a king, he needs occasional changes of scenery every so often. that's why i feel the NY thing will be good for a while

3) From what I've read of the Priest run (which is not a lot, sadly) I don't think T'Challa is too powerful. Sure he has a lot of gadgets, but isn't that how Kirby (the original creator) meant for the character to be? T'Challa comes from a highly advanced nation from the get go, why shouldn't he use some of his resources? As for your Black Batman comment, didn't Batman not become the Batman we know him as until the Bronze Age/Modern Age? Wouldn't that mean that Batman became the "White Black Panther?" Sure, the foundation may have been laid there from before, but I'm pretty sure that T'Challa had more Batgod in him in 1966, then Batman did.

i wasn't actually talking about the Bat-god aspect, i was talking about utility belt and Bat-shark repellant, which long precedes BP. yeah, T'Challa has always had cool toys like Quinjets and his technological jungle back in Wakanda, etc., but the classic T'Challa never carried that much hardware into battle...he was basically just a guy in a cool-looking suit until Priest's run, when he began carrying around what essentially amounted to a utility belt/semi-armored suit full of vibranium-based weapons and asccessories. and while that stuff is cool, i like the simpler version just as much.

4) Hasn't it been established before that Wakanda is more than just its Vibranium? Even if it lost the use of such a metal, wouldn't their country still be a formidable opponent due to its advances in science and technology. What's so interesting about a poor Wakanda? Isn't it a better statement to show a Self-Sustained Wealthy African Nation than one that's a stereotypical poor one? Shouldn't Wakanda stand out, even without its heart? Personally, I feel Marvel is doing a disservice if it doesn't rebuild Wakanda, as I feel there's nothing wrong with an African nation that has a crapload of swagger. Besides, there's so much division in that country that you have good story materials just from that.

well, i may be talking a bit out of my ass here b/c i haven't actually read DoomWar (or any BP since Hudlin started), but it was always my understanding that the majority of their advanced tech was all vibranium-based, so when the vibranium was wiped out, so was that tech. now they'll still have other non-vibranium stuff, but no moreso than any other civilized nation. vibranium was their only valuable natural resource, so without that, they have less than those around them, so why would anyone choose to poach on or go to war against them then?

and i didn't say there was anything interesting about a poor Wakanda. i think quite the opposite in fact, that's kinda my point. i frankly think it's a terrible idea to take away vibranium and effectively cripple the country, but that's how Marvel decided to go. i agree with you that it's absolutely a disservice if Marvel doesn't rebuild it, i just don't want to see Panther doing that political, economic, etc. rebuilding for the next couple years b/c frankly, i don't find that interesting in the grand scheme of a superhero universe. that's why i think leaving Shuri there to do the rebuilding (preferably behind the scenes) while T'Challa goes out into the world to get his superhero on will be a more entertaining read.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Even if it is temporary, I prefer looking at the possible, positive outcomes once Matt returns to his domain.

T'Challa, and hopefully Storm, will be much closer to the other Marvel heroes based in and around NY, ie. The New Avengers, preferably...ergo, probable guest appearances with the chance to shine as the capable heroes and couple they were originally touted to be. Quite possibly even starting their own team, eventually.

and...I quite like Shuri as the NBP and hopefully we will have really interesting stories based in and around Wakanda as the nation is rebuilding and Shuri is coming in to her title(s)...once that probably dreadful (imo) KotP mini is through, of course.

I'm quite looking forward to having two BPs.

...so these, and everything Chap22 wrote.