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Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:52 am

Spektre wrote:
But I've read thousands of panels that say they are the same person. The onus of evidence is on you.

edit - Eh, no it's not. I am asking for evidence one way or th4e other, you just aren't providing convincing evidence.


The fan on my Lenovo is busted otherwise I could post the images.

The scenes I'm referring too are documented on Cap's Wikipedia page.

One thing to note about Cap is that Beck had more influence than Binder and Parker, but, contributed little other than art early on.

Hab

The Old Doctor

Postby The Old Doctor » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:52 am

Punchy wrote:Anyways, Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel, not Billy Batson :P


I so want to slap you for that lame post. :smt011
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Pink_Orchid

The Virgin Connie Swail

Postby Pink_Orchid » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:29 pm

habitual wrote:
Beck wasn't always in charge of the character, Bill Parker was before having to go off to war.

Cap is what Billy is supposed to look like as an adult, that's never changed, but, there were always two distinct personalities to each.

Hab


Alter egos you mean? Of course their personalities differ. As Captain Marvel 10 year old Billy suddenly has access to the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the stamina of Atlas, the power of Zeus, the courage of Achilles, and the speed of Mercury. He's going to act like an adult superhero. But that doesn't stop him from being grossed out by girls, saying "Nuts!" or "Holy moley!"
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 pm

Which is why they can have conversations with each other, they are distinctly different people.

You don't see Bruce Wayne having conversations with Batman, that's an alter ego.

Hab
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:23 pm

Punchy wrote:Anyways, Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel, not Billy Batson :P


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Pink_Orchid

The Virgin Connie Swail

Postby Pink_Orchid » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:40 pm

habitual wrote:Which is why they can have conversations with each other, they are distinctly different people.

You don't see Bruce Wayne having conversations with Batman, that's an alter ego.

Hab


Probably because there is no Bruce Wayne. Only Batman. Plus you totally know he has conversations with himself in the Batcave when he thinks no one will hear him. Probably has a mirror in his utility belt to go all Stuart Smalley.
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The Beast

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby The Beast » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:05 pm

Black_Orchid wrote:
Alter egos you mean? Of course their personalities differ. As Captain Marvel 10 year old Billy suddenly has access to the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the stamina of Atlas, the power of Zeus, the courage of Achilles, and the speed of Mercury. He's going to act like an adult superhero. But that doesn't stop him from being grossed out by girls, saying "Nuts!" or "Holy moley!"


I totally agree, this is why Beck considered them to be the same person. He even designed Shazam to be an elderly version of Captain Marvel/Billy, so all three guys are one person at different points in their respective timelines.

Black_Orchid wrote:
Probably because there is no Bruce Wayne. Only Batman. Plus you totally know he has conversations with himself in the Batcave when he thinks no one will hear him. Probably has a mirror in his utility belt to go all Stuart Smalley.


Bwahahahahahahahahaha! :smt005

I'm dark enough, I'm grim enough and goddamit, people fear me.

Image
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StarCruncher

Outhouse Drafter

Postby StarCruncher » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:19 pm

Monica Rambeau is (the best & most powerful) Captain Marvel, you stupid crackas.
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:32 pm

None of this changes the fact that Bill Parker designed the character as two different people and Otto Binder to a lesser extent both wrote them as seperate people:

Image

Here's some additional things that Beck added as far as how limited his input was on the character in the same interview Orchid is referring too:

No. At Fawcett, Captain Marvel was produced by writers and artists working separately. The scripts were prepared by the editorial department, the drawings by the art department. The writers, who worked under the supervision of a managing editor, had nothing to say about the art, and the artists, who worked under the supervision of an art director, had nothing to say about the stories they were given to illustrate. In the 13 years I spent drawing Captain Marvel, I wrote only one story, about Billy’s trip to a Mayan temple, which had to be submitted in typed form and edited and approved before I was allowed to illustrate it. There was never any direct cooperation between the writers and the artists at Fawcett, but there did develop an interplay of ideas between the two departments that kept Captain Marvel changing and developing instead of getting bogged down and repeating himself tiresomely after the first few issues, as so many other comic characters did. Ralph Daigh, the editorial director at Fawcett, has said that I had complete license to change and alter scripts to suit myself. I don’t remember his saying this to me back in the days when I was drawing Captain Marvel.



Which is why Alan Moore, Stan Lee and other creators designed their knockoffs the same way. He was always originally two different people know matter how you want to split hairs.

Hab
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The Beast

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby The Beast » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:46 pm

"Billy's other SELF, Captain Marvel..."

Helps Billy cheat but it's not cheating because they are the same person.


Bah
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StarCruncher

Outhouse Drafter

Postby StarCruncher » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:00 pm

So Billy's just schizophrenic? :smt102
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habitual

Silly French Man

Postby habitual » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:06 pm

outsider wrote:So Billy's just schizophrenic? :smt102


As much to the same degree that Micky Moran was, that's why Moore hooked into the seperate personalities. It wasn't really until the 70's that they were merged into one and the same, like he's being written by Johns (poorly) today.

Billy is an avatar for Cap, not the same person.

That was just one panel, Parker wrote the issue. They weren't the same person until it was relaunched under the National Imprint, like I said originally.

Hab
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Regulator

Motherfucker from Hell

Postby Regulator » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:50 pm

Black_Orchid wrote:Reading an interview with CC Beck in Alter Ego. He says Billy and Cap are one in the same. Cap is just Billy's adult body. Same features.


Since this thread is about nitpicking, the correct idiom is "one AND the same."
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Pink_Orchid

The Virgin Connie Swail

Postby Pink_Orchid » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:47 pm

Regulator wrote:
Since this thread is about nitpicking, the correct idiom is "one AND the same."


Thank you. :wondering:
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Arion

Twenty-Something

Postby Arion » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Black_Orchid wrote:
Alter egos you mean? Of course their personalities differ. As Captain Marvel 10 year old Billy suddenly has access to the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the stamina of Atlas, the power of Zeus, the courage of Achilles, and the speed of Mercury. He's going to act like an adult superhero. But that doesn't stop him from being grossed out by girls, saying "Nuts!" or "Holy moley!"


Holy moley! That reminds me of Captain Marvel's appearance in Young Justice (the animated series), they got that right.

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