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Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Spektre » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:04 pm

habitual wrote:None of this changes the fact that Bill Parker designed the character as two different people and Otto Binder to a lesser extent both wrote them as seperate people:

Image

Here's some additional things that Beck added as far as how limited his input was on the character in the same interview Orchid is referring too:




Which is why Alan Moore, Stan Lee and other creators designed their knockoffs the same way. He was always originally two different people know matter how you want to split hairs.

Hab


This strip certainly doesn't look convincing that they were two separate people. (Looks like how someone's "conscience" is often portrayed whispering to them).

Got anything more convincing?
- Continuity is or it is not. There is no such thing as soft continuity.
- A character IS his continuity.
- Continuity is consistency of the characteristics of people, plot, objects, and places seen by the reader or viewer.

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Liam Rodgers » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:32 pm

Doesn't it matter that Billy and Cap have the exact same features?

Image

Image

Here's one with his eyes open.

Image

How thin is this hair we're trying to split here anyways?

Image

Is future self not still you? Golden Age Captain Marvel blushed when women kissed him because he was an amplified version of Billy and not some foreign entity that was fully developed. Smith can do what he wants but that doesn't make it how it always was.

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:14 am

The Beast wrote:Doesn't it matter that Billy and Cap have the exact same features?

Image

Image

Here's one with his eyes open.

Image

How thin is this hair we're trying to split here anyways?

Image

Is future self not still you? Golden Age Captain Marvel blushed when women kissed hit im because he was an amplified version of Billy and not some foreign entity that was fully developed. Smith can do what he wants but that doesn't make it how it always was.


Smith, Moore, Lee....

The list is much longer thann you're pretending it is.

Golden Age Cap = different person

Hab

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby pastajoe » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:33 am

So if Cap is a future version of Billy, what will happen when Billy is an adult? Will he always be Cap, or if he says Shazam! will he turn into the old Wizard, or what?

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby habitual » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:16 am

pastajoe wrote:So if Cap is a future version of Billy, what will happen when Billy is an adult? Will he always be Cap, or if he says Shazam! will he turn into the old Wizard, or what?


It's not that he's a future version, it's that he's what Billy will look like when he's an adult, that's never really been in dispute, why it keeps being brought up however doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about.

Captain Marvel/Captain Thunder was really Parker's creation, from the same interview:

I didn’t create any of Fawcett’s characters—I was just the first person to put them into visual form. They were conceived in Parker’s mind; I was just the doctor who held them up and slapped them on their bottoms to make them draw their first breaths.


Heintjes: Did you ever make suggestions about stories you were given?
Beck: Rarely—I wasn’t an editor. I once suggested that instead of killing Mr. Mind off, we could have him turn into a beautiful butterfly and fly away, but that idea was killed by the editorial department.
Heintjes: I guess justice wouldn’t have been served. But despite the real challenges in illustrating a story, you obviously believe in the primacy of the story.


Parker wrote all the issues up to 1942, then was drafted. Beck didn't take full control until after National started to distribute the character in 1972.

Golden Age Cap under Parker was definitely much different than what Beck did in the 70's and the post Silver Age incarnation of the character.

Hab

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:32 am

outsider wrote:Monica Rambeau is (the best & most powerful) Captain Marvel, you stupid crackas.


I so will slap you for that. Fin Fang Foom puts her in his pants!

The Best Captain Marvel is - Image

The Next Best Captain Marvel is - Image

The Rest Of The Captain Marvels ranked is as follows -

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image - But one of the best looking.

BAD OUTSIDER! :smt075 BAD! :smt075
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

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IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Old Doctor is the NuDCU's Catscratch

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Arion » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:29 pm

That's a lot of Captain Marvels.

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby The Old Doctor » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:46 pm

Arion wrote:That's a lot of Captain Marvels.


And there are still more... but they suck.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Old Doctor is the NuDCU's Catscratch

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Liam Rodgers » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:55 pm

habitual wrote:
Smith, Moore, Lee....

The list is much longer thann you're pretending it is.

Golden Age Cap = different person

Hab


So because Moore and Lee wanted to differentiate their Captain Marvel analogues from the source material, you assume that everyone else got it wrong about Captain Marvel all along?

You keep posting these interviews about the division of labor but why not just support some definitive proof of your allegations? Something from the Golden Age that defines the relationship as you do would be nice. Is he a separate entity/future self? Are they the same person or not?

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby habitual » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:11 am

The Beast wrote:
So because Moore and Lee wanted to differentiate their Captain Marvel analogues from the source material, you assume that everyone else got it wrong about Captain Marvel all along?

You keep posting these interviews about the division of labor but why not just support some definitive proof of your allegations? Something from the Golden Age that defines the relationship as you do would be nice. Is he a separate entity/future self? Are they the same person or not?


Have you not been reading the thread?

Bill Parker, the guy that created Captain Marvel and to a lesser extent Otto Binder both treated them as seperate individuals.

And I already have, you've just got your head in the sand :lol:

Hab

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Mr. Log » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:51 am

Cat-Scratch wrote:
And there are still more... but they suck.


How can you say that??

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby The Old Doctor » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:14 am

Log-Man wrote:
How can you say that??

Image

Image

Image


Easy, watch... they suck. He sucks. He's a busted action figure. Only his girlfriend likes him yelling "Split" and that's in the bedroom.
"Why are you pointing your screwdrivers like that? They're scientific instruments, not water pistols."
"Oh, the pointing again! They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?"
"Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?"
""Timey" what? "Timey wimey"?"

Image
IvCNuB4 wrote:The Old Doctor is Cat-Scratch ?
Well that explains a lot :lol:

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Old Doctor is the NuDCU's Catscratch

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Pink_Orchid » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:09 am

Look, whatever the writers intent, can we agree that it can be interpreted both ways? If you think they are two separate people or that they are just one, it reads the same.

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby habitual » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:18 am

Black_Orchid wrote:Look, whatever the writers intent, can we agree that it can be interpreted both ways? If you think they are two separate people or that they are just one, it reads the same.


I was just pointing out the difference's between how Parker wrote the character and the way Beck wrote it.

The most interesting part of that interview you quoted was Beck's disdain for DC.

Hab

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Re: Captain Marvel not Billy Batson?

Postby Arion » Sun Jul 21, 2013 6:40 pm

Cat-Scratch wrote:
And there are still more... but they suck.


It's quite a popular name.

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