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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:22 am

Twigglet wrote:You're the only person I've seen who seems to be loving Trinity, everywhere else seems to think it's a bit meandering, and it's doing poorly in sales. I can't see another year long weekly book after this.
actually, there seem to be quite a few folk around here that really enjoy it. i know me and rdrsfn, i'm pretty sure milton is digging it, and some others.

i'll be honest, i don't know if i'm not enjoying it more than i did 52 at this point. and i LOVED 52, but here the art's better (although i iked all the guys on 52 too) and the fact that it's just telling one linear story rather than flipping back and forth between 4 or 5 every 3 pages or so is a definite plus. just like 52, it's either the first or second comic i want to read every week.

and God knows it's a million times better than Countdown.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:35 am

and now, my remaining reviews:


BATMAN & THE OUTSIDERS 11 -- this was...jarring; with Dixon gone, every plot from the last 10 issues is dropped in mid-stream and we get an issue of the Outsiders looking for Batman and coming across some loose ends from Gotham Underground (not surprisingly, since this is Tieri); we alo gfet fill-in art from the vastly-inferior-to-Julian-Lopez Ryan Benjamin again; but you know, i still kinda liked it; all these R.I.P. tie-ins keep spoiling little stuff from R.I.P. since it keeps coming out kinda late, and they keep reinforcing how silly some of the plot holes are (for instance, Dick's fighting Trigon in Titans, fighting Two-Face in New York in his own title, hanging out in the cave with Tim in Robin, busting heads mercilessly here, and supposedly doped up on thorazine in Arkham in R.I.P., while all of this takes place over a span of mere days), but i'm still digging the direction almost in spite of myself; and i just like these characters, even Grace & Thunder now that somebody other than Winick is actually making them multi-dimensional; liked it

BIRDS OF PREY 122 -- still not as fun as Gail's, but one of Bedard's better efforts, and the last couple pages have me REALLY stoked for next issue's Oracle/Joker face-off; O'Hare's art is nice too; liked it

FLASH 244
-- i'm on the fence here; part of me digs the idea of a short arc where Wally's temperd back down to subsonic speed, but another part of me worries this is going to be a "permanent" change to lessen him so Barry looks better when they restart Flash soon; and this arc's title just reminds me WAY too much of the Godawful arc by Cavalieri after Johns left; sometimes i wonder if DC EVER learns from their mistakes...other than that, servicable if forgettable, and i don't like Diaz's art; mediocre
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:40 am

rdrsfn82 wrote:I'd also like to mention two books I'm sure chap picked up, but didn't mention yet. First off was Brave and the Bold, which for me was a misfire. I didn't like the art for the most part and I didn't enjoy the characterization of Kara, it was the normal irritating portrayal I can't stand. The stuff with her father directly contradicts what her origin is in the issue of Action Comics which came out this week and showed her dad as a good guy. That bugged me. The stuff with the kid seems like it is a reference to that Kid Amazo story I didn't read based on the last page of him, but I didn't read that so I don't know. The book was just a little off, I have loved every story up until this point in this book though, so I'm sure it's just a bump in the road. I didn't notice the different writer until I'd already bought the book, but I likely would have picked it up anyways. If this is just a two part story I'll pick up the next one, but if it's more than that I'll skip it until the next arc.


yeah, i skipped this issue (and next, too). i loved Marv back in the 80s like nobody's business, but his recent Nightwing/Vigilante arc pissed me off something terrible, a nd i honestly have no interest in Supergirl (whose present incarnation i can't stand) & Raven (always my absolute LEAST favorite Titan) team up. i'll pick B&B back up for the hal/Phantom Stranger 2-parter by Hine, but then when JMS picks up, i'm done until he is.
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Starlord

Outhouse Editor

Postby Starlord » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:33 am

Twigglet wrote:You're the only person I've seen who seems to be loving Trinity, everywhere else seems to think it's a bit meandering, and it's doing poorly in sales. I can't see another year long weekly book after this.


I'm with the, "This is great so far" crowd, and I'm a bit torn on if I like this better than 52 or not.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:22 am

chap22 wrote:yeah, i skipped this issue (and next, too). i loved Marv back in the 80s like nobody's business, but his recent Nightwing/Vigilante arc pissed me off something terrible, a nd i honestly have no interest in Supergirl (whose present incarnation i can't stand) & Raven (always my absolute LEAST favorite Titan) team up. i'll pick B&B back up for the hal/Phantom Stranger 2-parter by Hine, but then when JMS picks up, i'm done until he is.


I wish I had done the same. I actually was reading Nightwing and dropped it during the Vigilante arc, it was just not well done. I'm very excited for Hine's take, since I've enjoyed his stuff, and then I'll give JMS a shot since some of his stuff can be fun. Honestly though I'd forgotten that Waid was totally done here, so now I'm sad like I was the first time I read that he was done. He had an amazing run and I'd love to see him come back to this or something like it some day.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:25 am

chap22 wrote:actually, there seem to be quite a few folk around here that really enjoy it. i know me and rdrsfn, i'm pretty sure milton is digging it, and some others.

i'll be honest, i don't know if i'm not enjoying it more than i did 52 at this point. and i LOVED 52, but here the art's better (although i iked all the guys on 52 too) and the fact that it's just telling one linear story rather than flipping back and forth between 4 or 5 every 3 pages or so is a definite plus. just like 52, it's either the first or second comic i want to read every week.

and God knows it's a million times better than Countdown.


I love this book. I don't know if I like it as much as 52, but I love Booster, Ralph, and Black Adam so that book got extra points for focusing on some less popular guys, still this book is really close and in the end may end up right on that level. The consistency of the art and writing really helps this book quite a bit as well. I have nothing bad to say about it. If some folks aren't digging it, well it's their loss.
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C20Percent

rubber spoon

Postby C20Percent » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:39 am

Twigglet wrote:You're the only person I've seen who seems to be loving Trinity, everywhere else seems to think it's a bit meandering, and it's doing poorly in sales. I can't see another year long weekly book after this.


I dropped it -- Countdown gave me a quick trigger finger, and since I don't get my books from an LCS I didn't have time to wait around for things to happen. The first 8-10 issue is basically the Trinity fighting some big alien and an introduction to a Tarot card reader. That was not a big enough hook in my opinion.

Plus, I'm not a supporter of the multiple Earth scheme that DC utilizes -- I think it's cheap, and if that's where Trinity is headed, then I won't have any regrets. Also, I'm not confident that this weekly will have any long-lasting effects on the universe as a whole -- I basically see it as a year-long mini-series.

The Juan Percenter

Rain Partier

Postby The Juan Percenter » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:11 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:He's the Earth-3 version of Riddler. They point out that he's a mirror image of Nigma with his fingerprints and posture and such. As they start to point out that that should make him a hero


That's the part that threw me - New Earth Riddler is a technically a hero now. So it would makes sense that E-3 Riddler would be evil.

The Juan Percenter

Rain Partier

Postby The Juan Percenter » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:13 pm

C20Percent wrote:I dropped it -- Countdown gave me a quick trigger finger, and since I don't get my books from an LCS I didn't have time to wait around for things to happen. The first 8-10 issue is basically the Trinity fighting some big alien and an introduction to a Tarot card reader. That was not a big enough hook in my opinion.

Plus, I'm not a supporter of the multiple Earth scheme that DC utilizes -- I think it's cheap, and if that's where Trinity is headed, then I won't have any regrets. Also, I'm not confident that this weekly will have any long-lasting effects on the universe as a whole -- I basically see it as a year-long mini-series.


I was ready to kill Trinity after 4 issues but I stuck it out. It is 10x better than Countdown. If you are staying away from Trinity because of the multiple earths, than it is understandable.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:21 pm

milton73 wrote:That's the part that threw me - New Earth Riddler is a technically a hero now. So it would makes sense that E-3 Riddler would be evil.


heh, i wouldn't necessarily call Eddie a hero...just a guy who's gotten smart enough to not commit any blatant crimes for the moment. :-D
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C20Percent

rubber spoon

Postby C20Percent » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:28 pm

chap22 wrote:heh, i wouldn't necessarily call Eddie a hero...just a guy who's gotten smart enough to not commit any blatant crimes for the moment. :-D


I love the direction The Riddler is going; he's become one of my favorite characters. The competitiveness and interactions between Batman and The Riddler are always great to read.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:32 pm

C20Percent wrote:I love the direction The Riddler is going; he's become one of my favorite characters. The competitiveness and interactions between Batman and The Riddler are always great to read.
Eddie's always been my second favorite Bat-villain (just behind Ra's and just ahead of Two-Face), and i too LOVE what's been done with him recently.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:35 pm

chap22 wrote:Eddie's always been my second favorite Bat-villain (just behind Ra's and just ahead of Two-Face), and i too LOVE what's been done with him recently.


It's a great and logical way to use the character. I'm loving it, but I wouldn't call him a hero either. He's simply rechanneling his energies in a seemingly positive way, but as seen in some stories (such as Countdown and Gotham Underground) he's still on the shady side at times. I really hope they pick back up on him in Trinity, I really enjoyed where that was going.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:41 pm

C20Percent wrote:I dropped it -- Countdown gave me a quick trigger finger, and since I don't get my books from an LCS I didn't have time to wait around for things to happen. The first 8-10 issue is basically the Trinity fighting some big alien and an introduction to a Tarot card reader. That was not a big enough hook in my opinion.

Plus, I'm not a supporter of the multiple Earth scheme that DC utilizes -- I think it's cheap, and if that's where Trinity is headed, then I won't have any regrets. Also, I'm not confident that this weekly will have any long-lasting effects on the universe as a whole -- I basically see it as a year-long mini-series.


The first few points are fair enough. I disagree, but they strike me as solid valid points and good reasons to not want to read the book. Those are personal tastes that I disagree with but respect.

However the bolded part bugs me. Not just now, but whenever I hear that sort of thing. None of this matters and as long as the story is good it shouldn't matter if it has long lasting impact. There are tons of great stories outside of the mainstream Marvel and DCU that those two companies publish (Preacher, Fables, The Other Side, Pride of Bagdhad, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Superman: Secret Identity, Dark Knight Returns, Marvels, Kingdom Come, 1602, and many many many more). Do you avoid those sorts of things as well? Because if you do you are missing out on great stories. And if you can read things like that without issue, than there shouldn't be a problem with something like Trinity or whatever if it doesn't crossover a lot or have a lasting impact. All the stories are pretend and it's good to read them if they are fun, regardless of long lasting effects.

Sorry for the rant, and please don't take it personally. I just feel that way about that point of view.
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C20Percent

rubber spoon

Postby C20Percent » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:14 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:However the bolded part bugs me. Not just now, but whenever I hear that sort of thing. None of this matters and as long as the story is good it shouldn't matter if it has long lasting impact. There are tons of great stories outside of the mainstream Marvel and DCU that those two companies publish (Preacher, Fables, The Other Side, Pride of Bagdhad, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Superman: Secret Identity, Dark Knight Returns, Marvels, Kingdom Come, 1602, and many many many more). Do you avoid those sorts of things as well? Because if you do you are missing out on great stories. And if you can read things like that without issue, than there shouldn't be a problem with something like Trinity or whatever if it doesn't crossover a lot or have a lasting impact. All the stories are pretend and it's good to read them if they are fun, regardless of long lasting effects.

Sorry for the rant, and please don't take it personally. I just feel that way about that point of view.


The other books you mentioned -- 7 of which I read -- weren't part of a larger universe with established continuity. I can't justify spending $150 on a year long series -- inside of continuity -- if it doesn't have serious ramifications and consequences within the universe.

52 had that -- Countdown did not, and I regret purchasing that title. But, my feeling is that if Trinity is going to be ignored by those creators that steer the DC Universe, and I'm thinking of Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, Peter Tomasi (to a certain extent), then it's not worth my time to invest in the book.

That's basically my feeling on Trinity -- there are a couple of other reasons why I decided to drop the book including 1) cutting costs and 2) being indifferent toward Kurt Buseik, but primarily the reason is that Countdown put me on edge -- I wasn't feeling Trinity in the first eight issues, and I dropped the book.

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