The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Benderbrau]

You know who's secretly gay? Thor. Afterall, how many women chase after him and how many of them does he just turn to and say "Meh. Move along women. I have no need of your affections. I have Mjolinor, with it's long leathery shaft handle. It's long, long, handle. It's so hard in my hand. I can't stop holding it. Mmmmmmm. Verily"

[Rockman]

He's gay for Don Blake, who is straight but doesn't technically exist anymore.

[Zechs]

some would say Stephanie Brown fans deserve a slap in the face

Hey why isn't she on the list?!

[Benderbrau]

He's gay for Don Blake, who is straight but doesn't technically exist anymore.

Yeah think of all those times Thor was "inside" Donald Blake. Gay metaphor obviously.

[ThatGuyRoman]

You're argument is basically "why not?"

It's a bad argument, there must be some reason why you're so adamant that it's okay to make Cap, Ice man, or any character gay when then there is zero evidence to suggest that he is.

I never said anything about making any of those characters gay. Like, at all. My point was that your argument that "it's never been referenced in # years" was a dumb argument against. In fact, I plainly stated that I don't agree with gaying up every other character willy-nilly, just that I'm not instantly opposed to the concept. Not for those characters but in general practice.

In fact, I'm beginning to feel like we're having two distinctly different discussions here.

Furthermore, I take umbrage with you waving away my opinion because "Oh he's got the gay, who cares what he thinks about this..." especially now that it's clear you haven't actually been paying any attention to what I'm saying and are just filling in the blanks with your own assumptions about my feelings based SOLELY on the fact that I am gay.

Are you going to try and convince me that I think Madea movies are great cinema, based on the fact that I'm half-black?

[Timbales]

[Benderbrau]

Hey why isn't she on the list?!

Zechs why does your CC sig look like he's got 5 fingers and is whacking off?

[Rockman]

I never said anything about making any of those characters gay. Like, at all. My point was that your argument that "it's never been referenced in # years" was a dumb argument against. In fact, I plainly stated that I don't agree with gaying up every other character willy-nilly, just that I'm not instantly opposed to the concept. Not for those characters but in general practice.

In fact, I'm beginning to feel like we're having two distinctly different discussions here.

Although I do take umbrage with you waving away my opinion because "Oh he's got the gay, who cares what he thinks about this..." especially now that it's clear you haven't actually been paying any attention to what I'm saying and are just filling in the blanks with your own assumptions about my feelings based SOLELY on the fact that I am gay.

No you're argument that people have lived lives as straight people before and come out, so it's not strange for a character to do it is dumb. If they had been struggling we the reader would know it. We don't have that luxury in real life.

Then you said that a consistent characterization is the same as Liefeld drawing pouches on characters in the 90's, or Super dickery, which are in no way comparable to 50 years of characterization.

And I'm just assuming that since you're gay that you would care more about having good gay characters exist than I would. And I really do suggest you try X-factor. I would assume the same of a woman wanting good female characters, or blacks, or any one really desiring good characters that are similar to them. It's only natural.

[ElijahSnowFan]

Interesting thread, interesting comments.

First, my take on the list:
Wonder Woman: I could see it either way.
Hercules: I could see it either way, if you wanted to play up the aspect of hedonism in ancient Greece.
Catman: Not from the stories I've read by Gail Simone.
Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass: Have clearly been in a relationship for years, in the original Legion's timeline.
Steel Sterling: Come on, man. Even I, who have or have read tens of thousands of comic books over 30-plus years, am like, "WTF? Who's tracking that one?"
Storm: I absolutely could've seen this before she got married.
Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy: I could see Pamela Isley, not sure on Quinn. Are we saying that The Joker never tapped that because they're both crazy as hell?
Gambit: That's ridiculous. The guy's chased Rogue for 25 years now.
Tim Drake: For most of his existence, he was pretty much a pre-teen kid. I think it's a little ridiculous for anyone to pretend like, either way, that they have a feel for that with this character. What, was he supposed to have gotten engaged at 12?
Captain America: Oh, for fuck's sake. That's so ridiculous, it doesn't bear repeating, and was clearly dropped in just to make people talk. The Carters. Diamondback. Steve Rogers simply doesn't date a ton, because he's old-fashioned.

As for some of the arguments in the thread, my take is this: It's 2012. Kate Kane's creation didn't blow up the internet. Neither did Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass' outing in the mid-80s. But here's the bottom line: That shouldn't be done with characters that have clearly established sexual orientation. If it's ambiguous, then fine.

Again: You could do it with Wonder Woman and I wouldn't blink, because for the majority of her existence, she wasn't with anyone. Depending on how the story was told, it could make a lot of sense.

But at the same time, you can't do it with Gambit. Because that doesn't pass the smell test. Again, the guy has chased Rogue for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS, through numerous books, from numerous writers. You can't just ignore that just for the hell of it -- that's bad writing. If you never had Gambit doing it, then fine. But you can't flip that switch on and off -- it's not that it's unfair to readers. It's unfair to the cause, of gays/lesbians, to do that. It doesn't advance the normalization and portrayal of characters to say that, out of the blue, Gambit's gay.

Create new characters, like Kate Kane. If you find established characters who have never really been portrayed one way or the other and it makes sense, then that's fine, too.

[ThatGuyRoman]

And I really do suggest you try X-factor. I would assume the same of a woman wanting good female characters, or blacks, or any one really desiring good characters that are similar to them. It's only natural.

I've been reading X-Factor since #1. It really is a good book, how awesome is Peter David?

[Timbales]

I could see Gambit as having had a gay fling in the past.

[Zechs]

I could see Gambit as having had a gay fling in the past.

I think he did didn't he? I always thought Gambit was bisexual.

[Rockman]

I could see Gambit as having had a gay fling in the past.

I can dig that. Why else would he be in a "celebate" relationship with rogue. She's basically the perfect beard.

[ThatGuyRoman]

Interesting thread, interesting comments.

First, my take on the list:
Wonder Woman: I could see it either way.
Hercules: I could see it either way, if you wanted to play up the aspect of hedonism in ancient Greece.
Catman: Not from the stories I've read by Gail Simone.
Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass: Have clearly been in a relationship for years, in the original Legion's timeline.
Steel Sterling: Come on, man. Even I, who have or have read tens of thousands of comic books over 30-plus years, am like, "WTF? Who's tracking that one?"
Storm: I absolutely could've seen this before she got married.
Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy: I could see Pamela Isley, not sure on Quinn. Are we saying that The Joker never tapped that because they're both crazy as hell?
Gambit: That's ridiculous. The guy's chased Rogue for 25 years now.
Tim Drake: For most of his existence, he was pretty much a pre-teen kid. I think it's a little ridiculous for anyone to pretend like, either way, that they have a feel for that with this character. What, was he supposed to have gotten engaged at 12?
Captain America: Oh, for fuck's sake. That's so ridiculous, it doesn't bear repeating, and was clearly dropped in just to make people talk. The Carters. Diamondback. Steve Rogers simply doesn't date a ton, because he's old-fashioned.

As for some of the arguments in the thread, my take is this: It's 2012. Kate Kane's creation didn't blow up the internet. Neither did Shrinking Violet and Lightning Lass' outing in the mid-80s. But here's the bottom line: That shouldn't be done with characters that have clearly established sexual orientation. If it's ambiguous, then fine.

Again: You could do it with Wonder Woman and I wouldn't blink, because for the majority of her existence, she wasn't with anyone. Depending on how the story was told, it could make a lot of sense.

But at the same time, you can't do it with Gambit. Because that doesn't pass the smell test. Again, the guy has chased Rogue for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS, through numerous books, from numerous writers. You can't just ignore that just for the hell of it -- that's bad writing. If you never had Gambit doing it, then fine. But you can't flip that switch on and off -- it's not that it's unfair to readers. It's unfair to the cause, of gays/lesbians, to do that. It doesn't advance the normalization and portrayal of characters to say that, out of the blue, Gambit's gay.

Create new characters, like Kate Kane. If you find established characters who have never really been portrayed one way or the other and it makes sense, then that's fine, too.

The B in LGBT does stand for bisexual.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing that out.

[DMM]

The gays really are trying to take over the world.