The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Keb** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:57 pm

Jude writes jokes? News to me...

by **IvCNuB4** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:32 pm

Toadfish wrote:Your Avatar is a picture of the Joker in a series where he does some of the most sick, twisted and horrible things imaginable, in his entire career, and explicitly says that he does them because he's in love with Batman, and you don't think comic writers have been insensistive in their representation of homosexuality before?

Joker has always previously been portrayed as straight. Were you offended by his actions for the last 60 years ?
I don't think his love of Batman is sexual. It's more like worship or a man-crush. Not to mention that he wants to marry Batgirl in her title currently. Unless she's his Bat-Beard :groucho:

bkthomson wrote:I think he has been handling himself quite well. You'd think after last nights discussion he would have canceled his account here.

I think his reply to me clearly screams "typical draco x response". Has anyone checked his IP yet ? Hmmmmm :twisted:

by **Zechs** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:48 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Joker has always previously been portrayed as straight. Were you offended by his actions for the last 60 years ?
I don't think his love of Batman is sexual. It's more like worship or a man-crush. Not to mention that he wants to marry Batgirl in her title currently. Unless she's his Bat-Beard

I think his reply to me clearly screams "typical draco x response". Has anyone checked his IP yet ? Hmmmmm

Of course Bab's his bat beard. Nobody wants a too clever girl who can't grow and evolve any longer.

by **fieldy snuts** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:57 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Joker has always previously been portrayed as straight. Were you offended by his actions for the last 60 years ?
I don't think his love of Batman is sexual. It's more like worship or a man-crush. Not to mention that he wants to marry Batgirl in her title currently. Unless she's his Bat-Beard

I think his reply to me clearly screams "typical draco x response". Has anyone checked his IP yet ? Hmmmmm

Lets be honest here...you only singled him out because he's criticizing DC. Namely Didio's conduct.

by **IvCNuB4** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:13 pm

Sorry, draco

Go back and read my replies to this guy. This, for me, has nothing to do with Didio but more about Toad's insinuations that it's an insult to be portrayed or mistaken as gay.

by **fieldy snuts** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:16 pm

To be fair though, making Harold Winer so effeminate clearly seemed to be the insult in mind when Didio wrote that part.

Didio wrote it with the sole intention of it being offensive despite knowing about Herald's Dr Light fetish.

by **IvCNuB4** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:16 pm

Hell, Didio missed the opportunity to be really insulting and make Harold Whiner's arch-nemesis a screaming butch Asian lesbian :lol:

by **Toadfish** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:30 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Joker has always previously been portrayed as straight. Were you offended by his actions for the last 60 years ?
I don't think his love of Batman is sexual. It's more like worship or a man-crush. Not to mention that he wants to marry Batgirl in her title currently. Unless she's his Bat-Beard

That is a form of psychological torture he is applying to her. He does not expect this relationship to progress anywhere. As you can infer by the fact that he shot her in the fucking spine.

Has been portrayed as straight. Past tense. Has been suggested to be straight mainly due to the prescence of Harley Quinn. What was it he said about her in the arc? Oh right.

"When did I ever say I found you beautiful?"

As for not being sexual,

"Hello, darling!" (First fucking words he says to Batman).

"What, no hugs? No kiss?" (the next freaking line)

"You remembered! That is how we did it last time. Back when we were full of vim and vigor! Two younguns!"

"You're nothing to me but a maniac."
"Shh. Don't do that. Don't pretend. Not to me, your faithful court jester"

"I even know which soap you each use in the shower (and why you always smell so good, Nightwing)."

This isn't some kind of subtext, this is a neon sign flashing over every page.

Whether Joker actually is gay or not is completely irrelevant, as he is either invoking the idea that homosexuality is abhorrent and revolting - if he's actually gay, the writer is trying to suggest it and use it. If he's not really gay but doing it to freak out Batman (which is stupid cause it contradicts what he says to Harley in private), then he's doing it cause he knows it will freak out Batman more. Which means Batman is homophobic.

by **GiveWarAChance** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:41 am

I thought you were completely out of your element here? :lol:

by **Toadfish** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:01 am

About fandom and the interactions they have with the writers and artists? Yes.

I am a passive comic book fan. I follow when I feel like it, when something new comes out that peaks my interest. I do not expect either Marvel or DC to actually put out a steady stream of content for me to to read and enjoy - consequentially, I do not get worked up whenever something happens behind the scenes, or when new editors are brought in and impose a new vision. When One More Day came out, I didn't complain, I just acknowledged that that storyline, and thus Spider-Mans continual storyline would likely not hold my interest and attention for a while.

You guys are different. You exist as the active, vocal fandom, in a symbiotic relationship with the publishers. I don't understand that relationship - the ins and outs of it, the how, where and why of your interactions.

I can get the comic book pages. What I don't have is the image of Dan DiDio reading the things Herald wrote about him, and then shaking his fist, saying "I'll show you". Thats the part I need help on. I don't need a guide to comics. I need a guide to comic book fans.

To put it simply, I need some way to establish definitive context for those comic book panels.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:17 am

Toadfish wrote:About fandom and the interactions they have with the writers and artists? Yes.

I am a passive comic book fan. I follow when I feel like it, when something new comes out that peaks my interest. I do not expect either Marvel or DC to actually put out a steady stream of content for me to to read and enjoy - consequentially, I do not get worked up whenever something happens behind the scenes, or when new editors are brought in and impose a new vision. When One More Day came out, I didn't complain, I just acknowledged that that storyline, and thus Spider-Mans continual storyline would likely not hold my interest and attention for a while.

You guys are different. You exist as the active, vocal fandom, in a symbiotic relationship with the publishers. I don't understand that relationship - the ins and outs of it, the how, where and why of your interactions.

I can get the comic book pages. What I don't have is the image of Dan DiDio reading the things Herald wrote about him, and then shaking his fist, saying "I'll show you". Thats the part I need help on. I don't need a guide to comics. I need a guide to comic book fans.

To put it simply, I need some way to establish definitive context for those comic book panels.

Well, it's an incestuous relationship that has been built up over decades. There was a time when people who were just writers got jobs in comics and told comic book stories, but for a long time now, most of the creators in comics were comic book fans. So if you wonder why Rob Liefeld would engage in countless e-battles with fans back on Newsarama's message boards, why creators fight with each other on message boards and twitter, why Dan Slott, the writer of Amazing Spider-Man, would show up here to good-naturedly tease Zechs and tell Rockman he banged his mom, why Mark Waid would tell the posters on Newsarama that they'd be eating from straws if they continued to call Stephen Wacker unprofessional for leaving DC in the middle of 52, or why Dan Didio would put Herald in a comic and goof on him, the answer is simple: they are us. If they weren't working in comics, they'd be on a message board bitching about them.

You don't need to understand the relationship between comics creators and fanboys. Comic creators ARE fanboys. Comic books themselves are pretty much corporate sponsored official fanfic. In the case of anything involving Wolverine, slashfic.

You definitely came to the right place.

by **Zechs** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:18 am

Toadfish wrote:About fandom and the interactions they have with the writers and artists? Yes.

I am a passive comic book fan. I follow when I feel like it, when something new comes out that peaks my interest. I do not expect either Marvel or DC to actually put out a steady stream of content for me to to read and enjoy - consequentially, I do not get worked up whenever something happens behind the scenes, or when new editors are brought in and impose a new vision. When One More Day came out, I didn't complain, I just acknowledged that that storyline, and thus Spider-Mans continual storyline would likely not hold my interest and attention for a while.

You guys are different. You exist as the active, vocal fandom, in a symbiotic relationship with the publishers. I don't understand that relationship - the ins and outs of it, the how, where and why of your interactions.

I can get the comic book pages. What I don't have is the image of Dan DiDio reading the things Herald wrote about him, and then shaking his fist, saying "I'll show you". Thats the part I need help on. I don't need a guide to comics. I need a guide to comic book fans.

To put it simply, I need some way to establish definitive context for those comic book panels.

You need context of the relationship between fandom and publishers? just look at the evidence sites report at cons (here or anywhere). Look at the way Harras treated Wally West fans last year at C2E2 or at any con of last year. You see it all the time in various ways when the other pokes and prods. It's almost a cycle with few recurring themes.

Though the forums don't exist I think Herald built this rep on Rama and extended it to being on every board. Obviously creators and editorial know a select few of us due to our "habits". So I take it they probably took notice of him. I mean they have to one way or another. Maybe in a way that's why Didio took notice and wrote Harold Whiner in the Outsiders.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:19 am

Also, it is now my mission in life to prove Dan Didio based Harold Winer on Herald. We'll have reporters at the next comic con he's at to ask him personally. :lol:

by **GiveWarAChance** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:20 am

You need a guide to comic book fans? It's like we're a whole new bizarre species.

How are we any different then fans of anything else? I guess I must be different from the rest of these fanboys because I don't get worked up over every little change either.

I don't think we can help you any. I think you need to speak to Dan DiDio himself. If Herald can't provide you with answers here, who the heck can?

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:23 am

GiveWarAChance wrote:You need a guide to comic book fans? It's like we're a whole new bizarre species. How are we any different then fans of anything else? I guess I must be different from the rest of these fanboys because I don't get worked up over every little change either.

I don't think we can help you any. I think you need to speak to Dan DiDio himself. If Herald can't provide you with answers here, who the heck can?

I can! This is my new mission.