Advertisement

DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Logged in users see WAY LESS ADS, so why not register? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

adamiani
Whale Castrato
 
Posts: 107
Likes: 0 post
Liked in: 3 posts
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:55 pm


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby adamiani » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:52 pm

Draco x wrote:
This here. Plus returning Barbara to the Batgirl role was a major character regression as she evolved quite nicely as Oracle. I mean if they wanted to make her walk again that would have been one thing but she long outgrew the Batgirl role and her successors honored her legacy for the most part.


But they didn't want to make her walk again; they wanted the most corporate-friendly possible Batgirl. Which means zero character growth, whichever was exposed first in a permanent status quo.

Which is a shame, and kind of short-sighted. A DCU that has an Oracle AND a Batgirl in it is flat-out cooler than a DCU that just has a Batgirl.

Advertisement

SporkBot
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1052
Likes: 43 posts
Liked in: 203 posts
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:13 am
Location: This precise spot right here.
Title: Stupidity Immolator


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby SporkBot » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:44 am

Also, consider this:

When she was crippled in the 80's, it was less than a year before Babs established herself as Oracle.

New52 Barbara spent three years sulking in her wheels, evidently not doing anything.

It's not hard to discern which is the stronger character.

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:08 pm

SporkBot wrote:Also, consider this:

When she was crippled in the 80's, it was less than a year before Babs established herself as Oracle.

New52 Barbara spent three years sulking in her wheels, evidently not doing anything.

It's not hard to discern which is the stronger character.


Not to mention the New 52 Batman is much more tolerate of incompetence in the Bat Family. Anytime Stephanie went as Spoiler usually it always ended up with Tim or Bruce lecturing she was in over her head. Or even when Cassandra failed to save people, Bruce always gave her a harsh speech and basically grounded her.

New 52 Barbara? Instantly cured she instantly goes back to being Batgirl. No training. No prep. Just bam right into the thick of things. Lives are lost. And what does Bruce say to her during their first meeting? "You were always meant to be Batgirl." WTF?! :smt013

Stephanie had at least better prep when she returned as Spoiler during her time "gone" and even after that got an eventual lecture from Tim. :smt011

Yeah, there's a reason why ten years from now people will consider this time period of Barbara's the worst tenure for the character. Nothing good came from it.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10769
Likes: 419 posts
Liked in: 293 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:12 pm

As usual Zechs you're talking out of your ass. :lol: She had a year of rehab and re-training before putting the Batgirl outfit on again.

And Sporkbot you've used that arguement before but it doesn't make any sense either. Your timeline is still way off. She did not spend 3 years sulking in her chair.

Have you two even been reading her title ? :lol:
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:21 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:As usual Zechs you're talking out of your ass. :lol: She had a year of rehab and re-training before putting the Batgirl outfit on again.

And Sporkbot you've used that arguement before but it doesn't make any sense either. Your timeline is still way off. She did not spend 3 years sulking in her chair.

Have you two even been reading her title ? :lol:



Oh you want evidence? Sure I can give you that FROM THE ACTUAL BOOK:


Image

Image

Clearly the sign of someone whose been training for an entire year. :P Where was this "year" of re-training again? *looks in #1* Oh right.. IT'S NOT IN THERE.


Just like the constant origin she keeps getting? What they're on a second retelling of her protecting James Jr from mean-old thugs just like in #0 now with #25 but in a get-up from Resident Evil? Or the fact the series is only being kept afloat with readership with crossovers?
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10769
Likes: 419 posts
Liked in: 293 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:32 pm

And yet no where in your "proof" does it say "OMG, I shouldn't have put this costume on without any re-training what-so-ever". When she says "rusty" she could mean actually going out there and dangling from rooftops with one hand while holding someone with her other. Often there's a difference between training and actually doing something.
In fact I love how you completely ignore the subsequent issues where they explain the time-line involved from her first becoming Batgirl, to being shot, recovering, and then becoming active again. And yes there is a later issue where Nightwing comes to her and expresses concerns that he and Bruce have that she might be pushing it too fast on her own but surely you can relate to someone being headstrong and wanting to prove themself :P

But congratulations Zechs on reaching new levels of twisting facts in debates :lol:
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:18 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:And yet no where in your "proof" does it say "OMG, I shouldn't have put this costume on without any re-training what-so-ever". When she says "rusty" she could mean actually going out there and dangling from rooftops with one hand while holding someone with her other. Often there's a difference between training and actually doing something.
In fact I love how you completely ignore the subsequent issues where they explain the time-line involved from her first becoming Batgirl, to being shot, recovering, and then becoming active again. And yes there is a later issue where Nightwing comes to her and expresses concerns that he and Bruce have that she might be pushing it too fast on her own but surely you can relate to someone being headstrong and wanting to prove themself :P

But congratulations Zechs on reaching new levels of twisting facts in debates :lol:


Twisting facts? You're the one whose gone full Chubby Checkers on us. She's cost countless lives. Every single issue up until #6 she's responsible for a loss of life. That very same Nightwing (#3) there's a subway car that loses only a "handful" of life. She shows no reason why she should still be in the suit. She "plays" with him and that's supposed to instill renewed trust? Or how about giving a lock of her hair to Dick? Yeah...

Okay since you're bringing up the time-line let's look at that time-line. She gets shot. Three years we have no clue what she does. Miracle surgery in Africa happens. Then becomes Batgirl again.

If Gail had bothered showing Barbara going through hell in training and being Batgirl again, we wouldn't be having this debate. But nope one panel, that's all we need. Though you know what we do need? Two stories of her saving James Jr from Gotham Thugs so we can tease that her brother is a creepy mofu.

Even better I'll go one on you. When Gordon demands Bats to surrender Batgirl. Bruce protects her. Why? We don't know. I'm assuming he knows James Jr is alive beecause "he's Batman". But does he tell his trusted ally this? No he just stands there and gets lectured by Jim who then just unleashes his pent up frustation.

The Batgirl series is the reverse of Star Trek movies. Odd number volumes are the best. Even number? They absolutely blow. I welcome the day when Gail Simone and whomever is editing Batgirl is axed. They're doing the character no favors at all. Instead showing her to be just a victim of the next set of trauma that over comes her.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

doombug
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 13124
Likes: 291 posts
Liked in: 99 posts
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:48 pm
Location: Holden, Ma


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby doombug » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:24 pm

IvCNuB4 what did DC do to get you to basically blindly defend them and support their work? :smt102 :?
Image

Image

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10769
Likes: 419 posts
Liked in: 293 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:37 pm

Zechs wrote:Twisting facts? You're the one whose gone full Chubby Checkers on us. She's cost countless lives. Every single issue up until #6 she's responsible for a loss of life. That very same Nightwing (#3) there's a subway car that loses only a "handful" of life. She shows no reason why she should still be in the suit. She "plays" with him and that's supposed to instill renewed trust? Or how about giving a lock of her hair to Dick? Yeah...


Let's break this down, shall we ?
Issue #1: McKenna's partner is killed because Barbara freezes up.
Issue #2: No dies. Huh.
Issue #3: She saves everyone on the one train, however at the last minute discovers that Mirror placed a bomb on another train. She can't be in two places at once.
Issue #4: She saves a couple from muggers. No one dies this issue.
Issue #5: While saving another couple, the mind-controlled mobster kills his own sons. Not her fault. She then stops the mobster from killing himself.
Issue #6: No one dies. Barbara gets help for the disturbed Gretel.
Issue #7: Barbara prevents Grotesque from killing the hostages.
Issue #8: It's revealed Grotesque is meta-human and can control electricity. He quickly and unexpectedly kills his own thug who tries to get out of the criminal life. I suppose you'll say she didn't move fast enough to stop him.
Issue #9: Gotham is under siege as the Talons attack everywhere at once. The entire Bat-Family is engaged. Barbara battles the female Talon with no loss of life from this battle.
Issue #10: The thug gets caught in a bear-trap because he tries to flee. Horrible yet he lives.

So Zechs, where are these "countless lives lost" because of her incompetence every issue ? :lol:


Okay since you're bringing up the time-line let's look at that time-line. She gets shot. Three years we have no clue what she does. Miracle surgery in Africa happens. Then becomes Batgirl again.

If Gail had bothered showing Barbara going through hell in training and being Batgirl again, we wouldn't be having this debate. But nope one panel, that's all we need. Though you know what we do need? Two stories of her saving James Jr from Gotham Thugs so we can tease that her brother is a creepy mofu.


Granted the 5-year time-line is vague at points but here's what we do know.
Issue #0: "Four years ago" (Year 2 DCU-time) she becomes Batgirl, acting at first solo.
Then"one year later" (Year 3 DCU-time) she joins up with Batman and Robin. She's with them maybe a year then is shot (Year 3 or 4 DCU-time).
It's a while until her father finds the clinic in South Africa that performs her surgery then she has another year of rehab & self-training. That brings us to when the #1 issues started (Year 5 DCU-time).


Even better I'll go one on you. When Gordon demands Bats to surrender Batgirl. Bruce protects her. Why? We don't know. I'm assuming he knows James Jr is alive beecause "he's Batman". But does he tell his trusted ally this? No he just stands there and gets lectured by Jim who then just unleashes his pent up frustation.


Bruce knows Barbara enough to know that she would never willingly commit murder. Which is exactly how it happened. She had concussion-induced double vision, it was raining and she knew James Jr was going to kill his mother. Barbara didn't intentionally push him off the pier. The railing broke. And then high-n-mighty Gordon won't let his own wife speak about what happened even though she can clear Batgirl of any wrong-doing. Yeah, who is acting on the wrong side of the law there ? :lol:
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:24 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
Let's break this down, shall we ?
Issue #1: McKenna's partner is killed because Barbara freezes up.
Issue #2: No dies. Huh.
Issue #3: She saves everyone on the one train, however at the last minute discovers that Mirror placed a bomb on another train. She can't be in two places at once.
Issue #4: She saves a couple from muggers. No one dies this issue.
Issue #5: While saving another couple, the mind-controlled mobster kills his own sons. Not her fault. She then stops the mobster from killing himself.
Issue #6: No one dies. Barbara gets help for the disturbed Gretel.
Issue #7: Barbara prevents Grotesque from killing the hostages.
Issue #8: It's revealed Grotesque is meta-human and can control electricity. He quickly and unexpectedly kills his own thug who tries to get out of the criminal life. I suppose you'll say she didn't move fast enough to stop him.
Issue #9: Gotham is under siege as the Talons attack everywhere at once. The entire Bat-Family is engaged. Barbara battles the female Talon with no loss of life from this battle.
Issue #10: The thug gets caught in a bear-trap because he tries to flee. Horrible yet he lives.

So Zechs, where are these "countless lives lost" because of her incompetence every issue ? :lol:




Granted the 5-year time-line is vague at points but here's what we do know.
Issue #0: "Four years ago" (Year 2 DCU-time) she becomes Batgirl, acting at first solo.
Then"one year later" (Year 3 DCU-time) she joins up with Batman and Robin. She's with them maybe a year then is shot (Year 3 or 4 DCU-time).
It's a while until her father finds the clinic in South Africa that performs her surgery then she has another year of rehab & self-training. That brings us to when the #1 issues started (Year 5 DCU-time).




Bruce knows Barbara enough to know that she would never willingly commit murder. Which is exactly how it happened. She had concussion-induced double vision, it was raining and she knew James Jr was going to kill his mother. Barbara didn't intentionally push him off the pier. The railing broke. And then high-n-mighty Gordon won't let his own wife speak about what happened even though she can clear Batgirl of any wrong-doing. Yeah, who is acting on the wrong side of the law there ? :lol:



You truly have become the anti-Herald with this post, you know that right? You're now posting just like Herald and doing the exact same mannerisms, but you're Pro DC. :smt017 Clearly the anti-Herald. I mean I'm gonna respond to this, but I can't help but notice this fact before I respond.

Also you're making me going to have brain damage for reading the garbage of Simone's Batgirl. I just want to note that fact as well. So no way am I reopening or looking for those files for fear of brain damage. I think the series blows huge chunks. I know I can find evidence to contradict every point you made and you know I will.

The question only is do I really want to devote time and effort to something I truly absolutely hate?
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10769
Likes: 419 posts
Liked in: 293 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:51 pm

:lol:
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

SporkBot
User avatar
Post Whore
 
Posts: 1052
Likes: 43 posts
Liked in: 203 posts
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:13 am
Location: This precise spot right here.
Title: Stupidity Immolator


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby SporkBot » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:17 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:And Sporkbot you've used that arguement before...


Yeah, I figured I was repeating myself. I took a risk.

...but it doesn't make any sense either. Your timeline is still way off. She did not spend 3 years sulking in her chair.

It makes perfect sense with what we've been given, sardonic hyperbole notwithstanding. What was she doing in the time before her miracle cure? Perhaps not literally sulking (but knowing the tone necessitated in the New52, it wouldn't surprise me), but she obviously wasn't utilizing her technological prowess to aid the superhero community. Maybe down the line they'll say she was "recuperating" or "studying how to reverse the effects of bullet wounds to the spinal cord". But right now, they haven't specified.

That's why feel 52-Babs is a weaker character than pre-52-Babs (same goes for 52-Mr. Freeze being weaker than his pre-52 incarnation). In fact, crippled Babs would kick 52-Batgirl's armor plated ass before her Hot Pockets were done cooking the in the microwave. And when my artist buddy starts commissions again, maybe I'll order a splash page of just that...with or without the Hot Pockets.



Yes, along with several other titles across three publishers, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm hazy on events from one book. The writing has been more or less fine, but I've had mixed feelings toward some aspects. I may just be dropping it soon. The more I think about that "you were always meant to be Batgirl line", the more it feels like Harras or Didio or someone told Simone to put that in there as a giant middle finger to the readers with dissenting Batgirl-related opinions.

IvCNuB4
User avatar
Staff Writer
 
Posts: 10769
Likes: 419 posts
Liked in: 293 posts
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:51 am
Location: Chicago, IL
Title: Stop messing with my TITLE !


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:19 pm

Fair enough. Spork.

See folks, this is how you have a productive debate on comics. :smt023
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:36 pm

SporkBot wrote:
Yeah, I figured I was repeating myself. I took a risk.



Yes, along with several other titles across three publishers, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm hazy on events from one book. The writing has been more or less fine, but I've had mixed feelings toward some aspects. I may just be dropping it soon. The more I think about that "you were always meant to be Batgirl line", the more it feels like Harras or Didio or someone told Simone to put that in there as a giant middle finger to the readers with dissenting Batgirl-related opinions.


Oh it was a big middle finger to readers with dissenting Batgirl-related opinions. There could have been a hundred different lines they could have used but Simone (or editors) made sure this was the final approved one. It's a slap in the face of twenty years of the character as Oracle.
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

Zechs
User avatar
Outhouse Editor
 
Posts: 43783
Likes: 112 posts
Liked in: 170 posts
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: From Parts Unknown
Title: Deposted Despot
Formerly: Blight, Deacon Frost, Heinrich Himmler of S_D


Re: DC Did Something Right Today: Stephanie Brown to Return

Postby Zechs » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:37 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
See folks, this is how you have a productive debate on comics. :smt023


Unlike listing hundreds of ways to support your theory then go detail on each and every post trying to showcase your way is better. Or appear in threads egging for a fight. Yes, that is less productive debate on comics. I'm glad you realized what you're becoming. :P
Image
Image

Image


sdsichero wrote:
I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

leave a comment with facebook

PreviousNext

Return to The News Stand



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FaceBook [Linkcheck], MSN NewsBlogs, uos spo6 and 114 guests

Advertisement