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Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Herald » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:28 am

Lord Simian wrote:Really? This couldn't maybe be OUR fault for once?


So, if I delberately push someone, and they lash out at me in return, the whole incident is all THEIR fault?? The instigator deserves NO blame whatsoever, and totally gets off the hook?? COOL!! I'll get right on that!!

Where do you live, again?? :twisted:

Making these idiotic changes in order to "get a reaction" is what Dan and the Gang were going for, as they themselves have admitted from time to time. I agree that some people have gone too far in their reaction. But, whether YOU like the character in question or not, some people DO like the character, and they're simply not going to just look the other way when DiDio-era DC warps him beyond all recognition.

It's like expecting people not to get upset or angry about Miley Cyrus's VMA display. Some people are certainly registering their opinions to that one in an inadvisable way, too. But to the one who deliberately instigated the reaction, it's all Mission Accomplished.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Pink_Orchid » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:32 am

Is there a female creator who HASN'T been threatened with sexual violence by anonymous asshats? I know male creators get that kind of hate mail too, but doesn't it seem to happen more often, and almost immediately with women? Good god, no wonder there are so few writers and artists without the y chromosome. Who would want to deal with that shit.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby achilles » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:48 am

Lord Simian wrote:
"Hate mail is wrong, but DC was asking for it. Look at the way DC is dressed, they obviously wanted it."

Really? This couldn't maybe be OUR fault for once? People's overreactions are on them, not on the big corporate boogeyman. You'd think a conservative like yourself would be into the idea of personal responsibility. :twisted:


First off, let me say, no, I wasn't offended, but I do think you misunderstood my point. I'm not excusing how people are reacting to that. It's one thing to register disapproval, quite another to act like was discussed above. And that isn't something I excuse, or blame on DC.

But DC is and has been very definitely stirring the pot, deliberately so. And yeah, they know that they're going to get even the inexcusable sort of reaction---in fact, they're likely counting on it---it gets them more press. Which is how Didio has acted from day one, and now Harras, Lee, and Johns. Shock tactics, (even if, like the Lobo change, they're not terribly shocking to some), instead of a good story, just to draw in some coverage and readers.

And you know what? It works, at least to a degree. I can almost guarantee that this issue will get more buys than if Lobo had been just the classic, old Lobo.

And again, yeah, the folks who react like that to that lady, or any creator for that matter are responsible for their own actions, (though I'd like to point out that technically I don't regard myself as being "conservative", since I disagree with them on far too many points, or even for that matter libertarian, since ditto---I just have my views and they differ from any extant party or school of thought. Call it a blend of all three).

As for the reactions that don't involve stepping over the line, well, those are on DC, since they solicited them. And they don't reflect badly IMO on those who express their opinions civilly.
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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby bkthomson » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:56 am

SuperginraiX wrote:We are truly living in the "HOW DARE YOU." generation. :smt011


HOW DARE YOU make that assumption about my generation!
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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Punchy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:58 am

Lord Simian wrote:
I think Blue's point (well, one of them), is that judging on sales numbers, they DON'T.

But a major problem in this industry is that people DO care about being outraged for outrage's sake.


Yeah, that's my problem with most of these controversies, because everything is offensive and awful, it's all become so meaningless.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Herald » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:02 pm

Lord Simian wrote:
I think Blue's point (well, one of them), is that judging on sales numbers, they DON'T.


But those sales numbers aren't from recent solo books featuring Lobo; they're from books that Lobo happened to be a part of. The failure of those books can more easily be attributed to all those other, NON-Lobo characters in those books being unpopular.

According to your logic, every low-selling book that guest-starred Batman, but still managed to get cancelled anyway, proves that Batman is also an unpopular character. And we KNOW that ain't true! Just because tons of people decide not to buy, say, Batwing, despite Batman making appearances in it, that doesn't mean Batman is unpopular. Same goes for Lobo.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:08 pm

Herald wrote:
But those sales numbers aren't from recent solo books featuring Lobo; they're from books that Lobo happened to appear in. According to your logic, every low-selling book that guest-starred Batman, but still managed to get cancelled anyway, proves that Batman is not a popular character.


Batman has several of his own books though. If DC discontinued Batman and Detective Comics and Batman rarely appeared in other books, and then it was announced he would be appearing in Wonder Woman or something, you'd expect a big sales boost from Wonder Woman as all Batman's fans bought the book.


I don't think anyone is saying DC aren't dumbasses nor that they didn't screw up by releasing those ill-conceived designs. I think the issue is that people have latched onto it as a reason to attack the creative team who, at least as far as has been reported, seem to be saying that those designs don't reflect the book.

So rather than hurt an up and coming writer whose book hasn't come out yet and might very well be good, direct the hate at DC for their stupid PR moves.
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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Herald » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:45 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
Batman has several of his own books though.


And with the sales of those books, he properly proves his popularity.

By that same token, the only way to truly prove how popular Lobo is, is to give him a solo book.

If DC discontinued Batman and Detective Comics and Batman rarely appeared in other books, and then it was announced he would be appearing in Wonder Woman or something, you'd expect a big sales boost from Wonder Woman as all Batman's fans bought the book.


Incorrect. Many people will not buy a Wonder Woman book, no matter who else appears in it. How many of the people who hate Lobo would buy a Lobo solo book in which a character they like happens to appear?? Not all of them, I assure you. Probably not even most of them, given their adverse balking at the mere mention of him.

I don't think anyone is saying DC aren't dumbasses nor that they didn't screw up by releasing those ill-conceived designs. I think the issue is that people have latched onto it as a reason to attack the creative team who, at least as far as has been reported, seem to be saying that those designs don't reflect the book.


Frankly, I find the suave, suit-and-tie, Luthor-clone design that IS part of the book and thus CAN be attributed to the creative team to be even further off the mark.

Bottom Line: It's still not Lobo.

Frankly, we already know that ALL of the DCnU character portrayals are deliberate reinterpretations of the characters, deliberately created to stir up adverse reactions. It ultimately doesn't matter what the thing the writer's going to be calling "Lobo" in her story looks like or acts like; Dan and the Gang will ensure that it won't be the real deal. Therefore, it's best to expect some blowback from fans when that thing she's calling "Lobo" inevitably turns out NOT to be Lobo... as it has.

If you work for Dan and the Gang, expect to be blamed for the crap they make you churn out. You did their dirty work; therefore, you deserve some comeuppance. But hey, you cashed their check and accepted their money, so you got your compensation, too.

Ultimately, the only way to "win" this game is NOT TO PLAY AT ALL. Other writers have found non-DC outlets for their work; frankly, I suggest our new writer does the same, lest the DiDio-era taint affect her ability to get such work the way it has some other writers.

So rather than hurt an up and coming writer whose book hasn't come out yet and might very well be good, direct the hate at DC for their stupid PR moves.


Again, see the link above. I know I'VE seen enough already from this up-and-coming writer, at least anything she's writing for the DCnU. And those two have established popularity and thus, pull with the company! We know all-too well how current DC Editorial's been stepping all over even the otherwise-good writers' work. I've liked the previous writing of Gail Simone and George Perez, but their DCnU storytelling's been the pits. Don't expect some "up-and-comer" with absolutely no pull to ruin the streak, no matter how promising she seems...

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:54 pm

achilles wrote:Well, hate mail about anything is way too far. That said, DC has only itself to blame. They've conditioned fans to expect the worst from them, mostly because that's mainly what they deliver.

And the way this was handled was stupid, in keeping with how DC likes to toy with fans and how it seems to enjoy it when fans hate what they do. Which kind of makes it seem like DC is run by particularly rabid fan boys, but that's another matter.

Basically, everything they did seemed almost calculated to kick up fan reaction like this, and truthfully it probably was. DC seems to like to stir up outrage as a marketing tool, and I doubt this was any different.

As far as Lobo himself is concerned, well, he can be fine, if done by someone who gets him. This take doesn't sound like it is, but then neither do most. It's actually been quite a while since he was worth anything at all.

But then the real problem isn't Lobo, but the Didiots in charge of DC. Until they all leave, (and yes, Geoff Johns, I'm also looking at you), nothing else at DC will matter.



I couldn't have put it better.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby john lewis hawk » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:07 pm

It really does seem that there are people out there that get their kicks by being pissed off at what DC is doing and with DC happily fueling them on. In a way, they deserve the fans they get.

It's too bad that innocents such as the writer of the Lobo series and people who legitimately like what DC is doing get caught up in this shit and there are people who can't control themselves.

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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:18 pm

Herald wrote:
And with the sales of those books, he properly proves his popularity.

By that same token, the only way to truly prove how popular Lobo is, is to give him a solo book.



Incorrect. Many people will not buy a Wonder Woman book, no matter who else appears in it. How many of the people who hate Lobo would buy a Lobo solo book in which a character they like happens to appear?? Not all of them, I assure you. Probably not even most of them, given their adverse balking at the mere mention of him.



Frankly, I find the suave, suit-and-tie, Luthor-clone design that IS part of the book and thus CAN be attributed to the creative team to be even further off the mark.

Bottom Line: It's still not Lobo.

Frankly, we already know that ALL of the DCnU character portrayals are deliberate reinterpretations of the characters, deliberately created to stir up adverse reactions. It ultimately doesn't matter what the thing the writer's going to be calling "Lobo" in her story looks like or acts like; Dan and the Gang will ensure that it won't be the real deal. Therefore, it's best to expect some blowback from fans when that thing she's calling "Lobo" inevitably turns out NOT to be Lobo... as it has.

If you work for Dan and the Gang, expect to be blamed for the crap they make you churn out. You did their dirty work; therefore, you deserve some comeuppance. But hey, you cashed their check and accepted their money, so you got your compensation, too.

Ultimately, the only way to "win" this game is NOT TO PLAY AT ALL. Other writers have found non-DC outlets for their work; frankly, I suggest our new writer does the same, lest the DiDio-era taint affect her ability to get such work the way it has some other writers.



Again, see the link above. I know I'VE seen enough already from this up-and-coming writer, at least anything she's writing for the DCnU. And those two have established popularity and thus, pull with the company! We know all-too well how current DC Editorial's been stepping all over even the otherwise-good writers' work. I've liked the previous writing of Gail Simone and George Perez, but their DCnU storytelling's been the pits. Don't expect some "up-and-comer" with absolutely no pull to ruin the streak, no matter how promising she seems...


To be honest with you, I think I'd prefer a rape threat over this.
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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby guitargod694 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:56 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:To be honest with you, I think I'd prefer a rape threat over this.


It'd be over faster and cause less PTSD.
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Re: Editorial Mandate: Enough with the Lobo Outrage

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:07 pm

bkthomson wrote:
HOW DARE YOU make that assumption about my generation!


HOW DARE YOU criticize that assumption.
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