The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:18 pm

Dragavon wrote:Please go away and never ever come back.

In other words stay FOREVER.

by **Dragavon** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:28 pm

Zechs wrote:
In other words stay FOREVER.

You really are a nutcase aren't you? :lol:

BTW, I just read Venom #16. Phil didn't get his ass kicked like the previews implied. He held his own and made the best of a bad situation. He really is my favorite (and only liked) Hobgoblin.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Dragavon wrote:You really are a nutcase aren't you?

BTW, I just read Venom #16. Phil didn't get his ass kicked like the previews implied. He held his own and made the best of a bad situation. He really is my favorite (and only liked) Hobgoblin.

He's on borrowed time. BORROWED. For Kingsley shall return!!!

by **Dragavon** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:58 pm

Zechs wrote:

He's on borrowed time. BORROWED. For Kingsley shall return!!!

Too bad. Kingsley is definitely less interesting than Phil.

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Dragavon wrote:Too bad. Kingsley is definitely less interesting than Phil.

Meh. Kingsley is so full of untapped potential. There's a reason why people wanted him back. To show off why he can be even more gloriously an evil bastard than Norman could in his 90s to pre Thunderbolts phase.

by **Dragavon** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Zechs wrote:
Meh. Kingsley is so full of untapped potential. There's a reason why people wanted him back. To show off why he can be even more gloriously an evil bastard than Norman could in his 90s to pre Thunderbolts phase.

You really don't get it. Kingsley at his best will be called Kingpin 2.0 or Norman Osborn 2.0. Phil is different in that he's actually interesting as opposed to being a copy of another character.

by **rdrsfn82** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:25 pm

Kingsley is a character that never should have been used again after showing him on the beach. He was unique and interesting solely because he won, he got away with the money and retired. There never should have been another story with him, unless it was about how awesome his life on the beach was and that he was still retired and had no desire to come back.

Bringing him back for any reason beyond that will just dilute the character and make him just another boring villain that is no different from the others.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:38 pm

Dragavon wrote:Please go away and never ever come back.

Sorry, did I make you throw up with this statement? I can imagine that you're still hurling in the bathroom by having those images in your head.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:43 pm

Dragavon wrote:You really are a nutcase aren't you?

BTW, I just read Venom #16. Phil didn't get his ass kicked like the previews implied. He held his own and made the best of a bad situation. He really is my favorite (and only liked) Hobgoblin.

So did Macendale in various situations he was put in where he went up against deus-ex-hero/villain but the point is that he still lost. I just read Venom #16 myself today and the end-result was that Phil still got owned by both Venom and the Human Fly even though he put up a decent fight.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Zechs wrote:
In other words stay FOREVER.

Don't worry I am not going anywhere anytime soon as I love the Outhouse. I believe that I unintentionally made Dragavon throw up with my Norman-Sleeping-With-Peter's-Mom joke-I believe the guy is still hurling as we speak. Out of mercy I will never make another Norman sex joke ever again-promise!

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:47 pm

Dragavon wrote:You really don't get it. Kingsley at his best will be called Kingpin 2.0 or Norman Osborn 2.0. Phil is different in that he's actually interesting as opposed to being a copy of another character.

Like Norman is Lex Luthor 2.0 now, you mean?

by **Zechs** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:00 pm

Dragavon wrote:You really don't get it. Kingsley at his best will be called Kingpin 2.0 or Norman Osborn 2.0. Phil is different in that he's actually interesting as opposed to being a copy of another character.

Norman 2.0? Hardly, Spider Writers ironically took those characteristics of the Hobgoblin and slapped them onto Norman. But of course they're also the Lex Luthor type things as well they did with him too. It wasn't until Ellis and Bendis they actually did something with him.

Also.. that "good" showing of Phil was him owning the guards. The Human Fly and Venom owned his goblin behind. Even though Phil has two good odds in his favor (sonics and fire), he still got hammered by Flash. Geez.. Dragavon and they say I have horrible taste in characters. Phil is awful. Yeah this was his "strongest" outing but I use that term ever so loosely. He still got owned badly (okay not as badly as someone else in that issue).

rdrsfn82 wrote:Kingsley is a character that never should have been used again after showing him on the beach. He was unique and interesting solely because he won, he got away with the money and retired. There never should have been another story with him, unless it was about how awesome his life on the beach was and that he was still retired and had no desire to come back.

Bringing him back for any reason beyond that will just dilute the character and make him just another boring villain that is no different from the others.

I like him as the Kaizer Sooze the one villain who can get away with it and he did. But Dark Reign did technically open that door to Kingsley's return two fold:

1.) Norman was now in control of a power where he could do things to Kingsley even he couldn't imagine in wiping out his accounts which do make sense. If Norman can't kill him he knows hitting Kingsley badly would be via all that money he made.

2.) Kingsley has to return with Norman ousted. Who is going to fill that void now of defacto Goblin? Norman needs a long rest. There has to be someone that brings :shock:

the moment you see them. They can't have that with Harry so who's left? They can't just create a new goblin because everytime they've tried they failed in Gray and Menace.

Kingsley has to be the only answer. And even then his reputation precedes him. Let newer readers realize just how nasty of a threat he was.

by **draco x** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:01 pm

rdrsfn82 wrote:Kingsley is a character that never should have been used again after showing him on the beach. He was unique and interesting solely because he won, he got away with the money and retired. There never should have been another story with him, unless it was about how awesome his life on the beach was and that he was still retired and had no desire to come back.

Bringing him back for any reason beyond that will just dilute the character and make him just another boring villain that is no different from the others.

I kind of agree here as I wouldn't want Kingsley returning only to get jobbed repeatedly like the other villains Spider-Man deals with. I mean look at what that's done to Norman when they brought him back from the grave as he has become less and less interesting as a generic James Bond villain. Plus, as much as I like Kingsley I wouldn't want him to become a plot device and be forced down our throats like Norman Luthor Osborn is.
The only way I could see Kingsley returning to the action is if he were forced to. The way I would set it up is if Kingsley were to lose all his fortune and then be caught by the local law enforcement in the Caribbean. He would then escape and then become the Hobgoblin again to avoid capture like how they did it in Spidergirl. It would then focus on how Kingsley would try to regain his fortune while dealing with Spiderman, Osborn, Venom( Flash), Betty Brant, etc.

by **rdrsfn82** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:03 pm

They don't need Kingsley to fill the role vacated by Norman.

That role can be filled by someone like the Kingpin or Doc Ock or by elevating someone else.

Kingsley retired makes him truly special and unique. Kingsley coming back ruined that already. Now, even if he's alive, he's just another villain waiting to be beaten and not someone who had a completed story and who actually won.

by **rdrsfn82** » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:05 pm

draco x wrote:
I kind of agree here as I wouldn't want Kingsley returning only to get jobbed repeatedly like the other villains Spider-Man deals with. I mean look at what that's done to Norman when they brought him back from the grave as he has become less and less interesting as a generic James Bond villain. Plus, as much as I like Kingsley I wouldn't want him to become a plot device and be forced down our throats like Norman Luthor Osborn is.
The only way I could see Kingsley returning to the action is if he were forced to. The way I would set it up is if Kingsley were to lose all his fortune and then be caught by the local law enforcement in the Caribbean. He would then escape and then become the Hobgoblin again to avoid capture like how they did it in Spidergirl. It would then focus on how Kingsley would try to regain his fortune while dealing with Spiderman, Osborn, Venom( Flash), Betty Brant, etc.

If he constantly comes back, wins, and then leaves, it's going to get old.

If he comes back and loses, it ruins the point of the character and his story.

If he stays away forever, he's different from everyone else.

There's no positive to bringing him back and he loses all that made him unique when he returned.