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Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoilers)

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Grayson » Thu May 23, 2013 7:07 pm

Herald wrote:And his Green Lantern wouldn't have sold as well as it did if it wasn't An Important Book You Must Read in Order to Follow the DC Universe. His Aquaman sure isn't topping the charts anymore; why?? Because there won't be any Blackest Night-style universe-wide crossovers coming out of it.


:smt102

It's really hard to say one way or the other. When Green Lantern Rebirth came out it was a self-contained story that was telling the return of a character that branched off into the return of the Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps comics. I still say that Green Lantern Rebirth and Green Lantern sold well because they were simply good stories. It wasn't until several issues into the series that we got the first wind that something major and universe spanning was happening.

The quality of Aquaman started to go down-hill during the Throne of Atlantis arc. If anything, I would say that a crossover is what hurt it's sales in the long run.

I maintain that he became a superstar on JSA and Flash. Without them, he wouldn't have been allowed to bring back his pal Hal.


Johns was allowed to bring Hal back because he proved he was a good writer on JSA and Flash, there was a very adamant group of fans demanding it, sales of the title were shit, and nobody cared about the comic at the time.

But that still doesn't make Hal and Sinestro "always friends".


No, it doesn't but Johns has steadily been building towards an unspoken respect between the characters during his entire run.

The question remains: Did you only start reading DC comics in the last 10 years??


No.
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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Herald » Thu May 23, 2013 7:24 pm

Grayson wrote:
:smt102

It's really hard to say one way or the other. When Green Lantern Rebirth came out it was a self-contained story that was telling the return of a character that branched off into the return of the Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps comics.


Green Lantern: Rebirth practically co-starred the Justice League. It was clearly meant to be Important even then.

I still say that Green Lantern Rebirth and Green Lantern sold well because they were simply good stories.


If only "simply good stories" guaranteed great sales...

The quality of Aquaman started to go down-hill during the Throne of Atlantis arc. If anything, I would say that a crossover is what hurt it's sales in the long run.


Looks to me like it started to go downhill when Johns overextended that "Others" storyline.

No, it doesn't but Johns has steadily been building towards an unspoken respect between the characters during his entire run.


I still say that it sugarcoats all the time that Sinestro was a vicious killer, just so Johns can worship at the character's altar.
Last edited by Herald on Thu May 23, 2013 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby fieldy snuts » Thu May 23, 2013 7:25 pm

It was a great bookend to Johns GL run...but damn was the whitewashing of everything Sinestro's done throughout not only before this but during this run stupid. It's like Johns decided halfway through he liked Sinestro enough to redeem him and totally ignore the more heinous things he did :lol:

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Grayson » Thu May 23, 2013 7:36 pm

Herald wrote:Green Lantern: Rebirth practically co-starred the Justice League. It was clearly meant to be Important even then.


True but aside from Green Arrow the rest of the Justice League didn't appear on the series covers nor was their importance to the story played up.

If only "simply good stories" guaranteed great sales...


It doesn't guarantee sales but word of mouth can help. I worked at a comic store when Green Lantern Rebirth was released and I was in charge of doing our stores monthly comic order. I ordered extra issues of Rebirth #1 and we still severely under ordered. It wasn't until the third or fourth issue that we caught up but the second, third, and fourth printings really helped. If Geoff Johns' name alone was the only selling point of the issue, retailers would have ordered enough copies of the first issue that they wouldn't have needed to keep going back for additional printings.

Now, I'm not stupid. I know that the amount of printings a comic has isn't an accurate gauge of the actual quality of the book but in this case but in this case, Rebirth was a damn fine mini.

Looks to me like it started to go downhill when Johns overextended that "Others" storyline.


Really? I haven't heard anything negative about the "Others" arc.

I still say that it sugarcoats all the time that Sinestro was a vicous killer, just so Johns can worship at the character's altar.


You'll find no argument from me. I was just stating the fact that it was obviously something that Johns has been working on for awhile.
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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Juan Cena » Thu May 23, 2013 10:25 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:It was a great bookend to Johns GL run...but damn was the whitewashing of everything Sinestro's done throughout not only before this but during this run stupid. It's like Johns decided halfway through he liked Sinestro enough to redeem him and totally ignore the more heinous things he did :lol:



Makes it easier for a Sinestro Corps series, probably. (If DC and Johns decide to make one)
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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby habitual » Thu May 23, 2013 10:44 pm

Grayson wrote:
Just to be clear, when Geoff Johns wrote Green Lantern Rebirth and the following Green Lantern series, he wasn't as big of a name in the industry as he is today. If anything, writing Green Lantern is what propelled him to the level he is now. Having wrote Green Lantern and having elevated the character and his mythology to the top tier of DC is what allowed him to become the type of writer that people will follow and buy no matter what he is writing.


I think his Flash run and his JSA had already put him on that path.

GL Rebirth/Afterbirth is where things started to go down hill. I gave up on him after Infinite Crisis.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Draco x » Thu May 23, 2013 11:45 pm

chap22 wrote:wait...lolwut? that legit sounds like the dumbest thing ever written in a DC comic ever. EVER. shit like this is exactly the reason I finally dropped Johns's GL. absolutely retarded.


I think they meant to say more like frenemies actually.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Draco x » Thu May 23, 2013 11:55 pm

Punchy wrote:
Yeesh.

Look, I had my problems with Johns' run, but no matter the content, you have to respect that he wrote the title for 8 years and made it a top-seller for the first time in a long time.

Thanks to Johns, Green Lantern is now probably the 3rd biggest character in DC, thanks to Johns they made a movie.

You may not like these things (and nobody likes the movie) but you have to respect them.


I really would not mention the movie as a positive point in your argument, bro.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby fieldy snuts » Fri May 24, 2013 12:37 am

Juan Cena wrote:

Makes it easier for a Sinestro Corps series, probably. (If DC and Johns decide to make one)


He really creepy thing about it is during the SC war the design EVS used was clearly modelled after Hitler.

Now he's portrayed as a havig a heart of gold under hat despotism.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Punchy » Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 am

draco x wrote:
I really would not mention the movie as a positive point in your argument, bro.


I said that the movie was crap didn't I?

Given that DC can barely get any movies off the ground, I think the fact that they did a GL one shows how important the character has become... thanks to Johns.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Jack Burton » Fri May 24, 2013 8:41 am

Grayson I have to disagree with you about Green Lantern making Johns as big a writer as he is.

He was at his peak of writing around 2005 and you can see that by the major titles he earned because of Flash and JSA. Green Lantern, Superman, and Infinite Crisis he all got those books around the same time.

Green Lantern might have improved his reputation but he was already DC's biggest gun before he got the book.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Johnny Smith » Fri May 24, 2013 10:01 am

Jack Burton wrote:Grayson I have to disagree with you about Green Lantern making Johns as big a writer as he is.

He was at his peak of writing around 2005 and you can see that by the major titles he earned because of Flash and JSA. Green Lantern, Superman, and Infinite Crisis he all got those books around the same time.

Green Lantern might have improved his reputation but he was already DC's biggest gun before he got the book.


It's been more of a steady climb to become DC's biggest gun than people remember.

This list only includes important titles or ones he started long runs (over 10 issues) on. This is not comprehensive (no Thing:Freakshow type stuff here :lol: ).

1999 Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E
2000 JSA, Flash
2002 Hawkman, Avengers (Marvel)
2003 Teen Titans
2004 Green Lantern (Green Lantern Rebirth #1 Cover Date Dec 2004)
2005 Countdown to IC (May 2005, co-wrote with Greg Rucka and Judd Winick! :) )
2005 Infinite Crisis (#1 Cover Date Dec 2005)
2006 Action Comics (One Year Later, started May 2006)
2006 52 (co-wrote with Grant Morrison, Greg Rucka, and Mark Waid)
2007 Justice Society of America, Booster Gold
2009 Blackest Night, Flash (Flash Rebirth + new Barry Allen series)
2010 Appointed DC Chief Creative Officer, Brightest Day (co-wrote with Peter Tomasi)
2011 Flashpoint, Aquaman, Justice League
2013 Justice League of America

He was becoming one of the big guns in 2005-2006, which is why he became one of the co-writers on 52. He clearly had rivals during this period - you could definitely point to Grant Morrison as being a bigger deal at the time due to his past work with DC and Marvel.

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Re: Green Lantern #20: The Geoff Johns I remembered (spoiler

Postby Punchy » Fri May 24, 2013 12:17 pm

Wow, where to start with this mammoth beast? First off, congratulations to Geoff Johns! Spending this long on a superhero title in this day and age is very rare, and it’s a great achievement. I really liked how this issue eschewed the usual advertisements and featured little messages for Johns from the great and the good of DC Comics, that was a nice touch indeed.

As for the actual comic itself… I really enjoyed it. I’ve been kind of lukewarm on the last few issues of this title and the whole ‘Wrath Of The First Lantern’ story as a whole, but this final chapter tied everything in together and made it work. So much crazy stuff happened in this comic that it’s hard to really talk about it. What I will say is that this is a great ending to Johns’ epic run and it did feel like a greatest hits for him. The opening few pages basically recapped what came before, and then the story itself featured almost every story idea that Johns introduced to the GL mythos. All of the human Lanterns showed up, all of the various Corps, fucking Parallax! Goddamn Nekron! Even G’Nort showed up! (I loved that scene, is that really the first time he has appeared in Johns’ run?)

Holy Crap this was crazy. I think this is the best issue of Green Lantern in the long time and I love that Johns went all-out in this final instalment. But I think the best thing about this issue is how, in amongst the crazy cosmic lightshow, Johns once again returned the focus to Hal Jordan as a character, and the moment when his father died. I’m pretty sure the very first issue of, if not Rebirth, then at least the ongoing, was a flashback of that scene, and it was very powerful to see that revisited. I used to hate Hal Jordan as a character, but over the years, Johns has worn me down, and with this issue I can admit I sort of like him, or at least I can empathise with him.

The focus on Sinestro has perhaps been the most controversial aspect of this issue, and Johns’ man-crush on a character who is supposed to be Hitler is kind of ridiculous, but I think he does work as a complex anti-hero now. He’s basically DC’s Magneto, in some stories he’s a villain, in other’s he’s a hero. I loved that he killed the Guardians (even though DC spoiled it), those blue bastards deserved it, but I think I love it even more that he spared Ganthet and then reunited him with Sayd. Sinestro is a complex dude.

It must also be said that Doug Mahnke drew the fuck out of this comic, he drew 55 pages and each of them is not only jam-packed, but also beautiful. I’ve always been a Mahnke fan, but he reached a new level here. I’m a little conflicted on the framing sequences which showed the future of the various characters, because whilst they make sense and were interesting (particularly Kyle as Space-Jesus and Simon training a female Earth GL, Guy’s was also very funny), given the nature of superhero comics, they won’t ever come to pass. Even though Johns is gone, there will be an issue of Green Lantern next month, Hal Jordan will never actually retire and marry Carol Ferris. But it was a good glimpse into the future I suppose, and if anyone can have the final say on these characters, it should be Johns. The various artists who drew these segments were great too, it was fantastic to see Van Sciver, Reis and Gleason back drawing Lanterns, and it’s always good to see Cully Hamner and Jerry Ordway art, and man, Aaron Kuder is going to be a star.

So, well done Geoff Johns, I may have had some issues with your run, but I still bought every issue, so you did something right! Just like Hal, you were the spark that made Green Lantern into something important, now it’s up to Robert Venditti to carry the torch. It’s going to be weird without a Johns Green Lantern each month, but I’m excited.

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