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Heroes and their returning rogues

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BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:53 pm

So at work, me and a coworker were discussing comics and I brought up the horrendous Joker story going on. I mentioned how I'd be happy if I never read another Batman (and extended family) vs Joker story ever again. Then I mention how he needs a new rogues gallery (and I brought up a few other heroes also) and he disagreed.

Then I asked him these two following questions, which answered no to both btw:

1. Would you read a title knowing full well the creative team woud use completely new rogues instead of his pre existing onexfor the next 2.5 years?

2. Would you read a title where the creative team would pull an "acts of vengeance" and have rogues from other heroes galleries (Captain America vs. Iron Man rogues, or Spidey vs Ghostrider rogues, etc etc) be in there comics instead of any of his pre existing ones for the next 2.5 years?

Well, would you?
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:00 pm

1. They attempted this with BND on Spider-man. None of those villains have endured and most of them were very uninspired. I think it's a good idea but the execution always seems to be off. If the creative team was right I'd try it.

2. This can be interesting I guess
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Keb

<( ' . ' )>

Postby Keb » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:07 pm

I loved the Grant Morrison New X-Men because it really introduced new villains like Cassandra Nova and Sublime the Super-Bad Bacteria. I really enjoy when comics writers try to create new villains because they're fresh. That's why I'll give Chuck Austen a shred of credit for his Uncanny X-Men work because no matter how bad it was, he was at least trying to introduce new villains.

With that said, I don't mind when villains cross over and fight other heroes. One of my favourite comics is Daredevil and his main antagonist is the Kingpin, originally a Spider-Man villain. I love the way Frank Miller turned him into a Daredevil villain during his run in the early 80s. It can work if the writer is respectful to the character and his past.
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T.S.S.-72

Rain Partier

Postby T.S.S.-72 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:12 pm

It's very hard in this day and age get any new character, to steal a phrase from wrestling, over with the audience. Be it a hero or villain their acceptance has been met with mostly disdain or indifference. I hated when Morrison introduced so many new villains in his Batman run that well just flat out sucked in my opinion. Pretty much will just echo the statement about any new character that has been a foe for Spider-Man over the last few year, they were horrible. There are a reason some of these characters have been around so long, yeah we all get sick of seeing them from time to time but I will take an established villain over a new threat to a hero most any day of the week. Look at the 3 new villains from the new Avengers arc, they lasted 3 issues and I figure we will see something from them sometime down the road at least from this creative team, but in 10-15 years most people won't even remember who they were.
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Lord Simian

The Lord of the Monkeys

Postby Lord Simian » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:13 pm

Even before BND, they tried that with the Spidey's books (I think it was just before JMS). It gave us the awe-inspiring menace of Typeface. Would you trade Venom, Doc Ock, the Green Goblin... For Typeface? No.


But the Acts of Vengeance think could be really cool, or really lame, depending on the choice of villains. Batman versus say... Intergang? Interesting storyline, if done right. Vandals Savage? Sign me up. But Batman versus... Captain Cold? Or The Toyman? No thanks, just bring on Condiment King.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:13 pm

1. 2.5 years is a bit long for that IMO, especially since most new villains nowadays, as Rockman said, are generally uninspired. Hell even the golden days of Stan's Spidey and FF, when they were intro'ing new villains left and right, couldn't go that long without a return appearance by Namor or Doom or Doc Ock or Vulture or Sandman, etc

2. But hell yes as to this. Love this idea, especially for some of the DC heroes and villains
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

I liked Morlun and the Digger introduced in JMS' run.

The Digger was kind of a cheap knock off of Solomun Grundy and had a stupid name but I liked that story okay.

I have to think the reason a new villain doesn't catch on or even new characters in the MU don't catch on is a little bit larger than the audience not accepting them. It is part of it for sure. But I think a lot of times the authors just don't present an interesting character that people would be interested in reading. They go for the "KEWL" factor before making someone with compelling motivations and back story, and all you wind up with is someone with a vague power set that makes them more powerful than the hero until the story finally lets him beat it.

What I've enjoyed more is the re imagining of older characters in some of the recent stories. Like Constrictor's role in Avengers Initiative
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MoneyMelon

Chief Yankee Wanker

Postby MoneyMelon » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:20 pm

1. This really depends on the writer. If they have a cool idea for a new villain, awesome. But when these things are forced, it rarely works out. I think it makes more sense to introduce new characters slowly over time.

2. Sure, as long as the match ups make sense. If you have Spider-Man fight Galactus, its going to be stupid. Keep the hero/villain match ups on the same level in a context that makes sense.
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:23 pm

Peter Parker fought Galactus in bullet points and that was fantastic.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:27 pm

Rockman wrote:1. They attempted this with BND on Spider-man. None of those villains have endured and most of them were very uninspired. I think it's a good idea but the execution always seems to be off. If the creative team was right I'd try it.

2. This can be interesting I guess


The only good thing we got from them was Mr Negative. Overdrive was also cool in a B-List villain kind of way.
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mrorangesoda

FROGMAN

Postby mrorangesoda » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:32 am

I'd argue that Batman has had a lot of good to great new villains in the last few years.
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rdrsfn82

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby rdrsfn82 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:54 am

Daredevil has been mostly fighting other people's villains or new characters like this Coyote fellow over the course of the current run. The use of Klaw, the Spot, and Mole Man were great in particular.

I have no issues with guys telling good stories with new villains or existing ones, totally depends on how well the story is written. Snyder's run was good for Court of Owls and the James Jr stuff, not as good for the current Joker story, for example.

I love seeing villains switch heroes and sometimes you find people that work alo better with someone else than they do with the character they were originally created for.
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HNutz

Rain Partier

Postby HNutz » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:15 am

I'd love 2.5 years of new villains along with underused & forgotten about older villains. You know, folks like Styx & Stone, Alistair Smythe, Lock-Up, Roulette, etc.

MikeinLA

Post Whore

Postby MikeinLA » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:41 am

I remember Marvel made introducing a bunch of new villains for the Hulk (or Red Hulk) a selling point for the title. Don't know if it worked out or not.
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DMM

Rain Partier

Postby DMM » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:44 am

mrorangesoda wrote:I'd argue that Batman has had a lot of good to great new villains in the last few years.

Me too.

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