The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **draco x** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:24 pm

As everybody knows by now, the Wildstorm Universe is officially now apart of the DC Universe due to the new 52 event. Whether that's a good or bad thing is open for opinion but I personally have mixed feelings about this.
For starters, the whole concept of rebooting the DC Universe has been done several times before with Infinite Crisis and Zero Hour before. Secondly, integrating characters from other imprints has also been done with Impact, Milestone, Charlton, etc, so nothing new there either. But the question one has to ask is do the Wildstorm characters really fit in the DC Universe at all?
My opinion would be no for the most part. Although I do look the current Voodoo, Grifter and Stormwatch books-plus I am looking forward to seeing Helspont fight Superman in the latter's book- I just don't know if the characters would really work in the long run.
What makes the Wildstorm Universe unique from DC is that the heroes have a different approach to the villains they face in the fact that they aren't afraid to use lethal force and are not above getting dirty. Whereas the DC heroes for the most part are more liberal and are very-by-the-book. Essentially WS is what DC could be if its heroes weren't afraid to use their powers without restraint. However, putting them in the DC Universe would kill that appeal a bit.
Plus, it goes back to the marginalizing argument with some of the characters. For example Apollo and Midnighter who had authority in the WS universe will basically be considered nothing more than the gay versions of Batman and Superman and Majestic( Should he ever show up) is just relegated to being another Superman knockoff like Apollo. I have always liked the WS universe when it was separate as it gave me an alternative to the main DC Universe but now it feels like they will be watered down to appease the DC fans. Anyways, those are just my thoughts so if anyone agrees or disagrees, feel free to respond.

by **fieldy snuts** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:29 pm

It sucks just like whenever DC decides to take control of Wildstorm.

Stormwatch started off interesting and just got stupid, this new Grifter take sucks, Voodoo is basically the Species movie with Daemonites thrown in, Gen13 which i was never a fan of sucks even more with Mackie writing Fairchild and also Warblade, And the new Daemonites are annoyingly bad. We traded from Helspont and Defile to the Black Curate?

Wildstorm had been on a high with the Authority, Wildcats Moores run v2 & 3.0, Sleeper, the book written by the guy that lied about being an army ranger and a bunch of other titles in-between.

Then DC got more hands on with that Captain Atom mini which failed with Worldstorm getting aborted (except Stormwatch PHD that was great). Then the years of buildup towards Worlds End happened which never seemed to end. Ever.

Now we get this load of shit where everything is sanitised to fit into the DC Universe.

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm

It definitely doesn't compare to the best of Wildstorm, but there was a lot of bad Wildstorm before, too.

by **fieldy snuts** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:34 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:It definitely doesn't compare to the best of Wildstorm, but there was a lot of bad Wildstorm before, too.

Back when they were working with Image? Oh yeah...I tried reading some of the old Stormwatch before Ellis and I gave up. Chuck Dixon's Team One and Team Zero mini's were not that bad despite the 90's overload.

But it wasn't till Moore and Ellis started doing stuff that Wildstorm turned around and opened the doors for it to become a viable alternative to big 2 comics...and their influence resulted in a lot of great runs.

by **HNutz** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:38 pm

I think it cheapens the line and takes away some of the originality. It gets rid of the "anything can happen" feel of the books.

by **Victorian Squid** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:48 pm

They did sort of screw things up at the end, though, Wildstorm did. A lot like DC did before the relaunch. So maybe it is fitting.

fieldy snuts wrote:
Back when they were working with Image? Oh yeah...I tried reading some of the old Stormwatch before Ellis and I gave up. Chuck Dixon's Team One and Team Zero mini's were not that bad despite the 90's overload.

But it wasn't till Moore and Ellis started doing stuff that Wildstorm turned around and opened the doors for it to become a viable alternative to big 2 comics...and their influence resulted in a lot of great runs.

Yeah, my favorite is The Establishment by Ian Edginton!

by **mrorangesoda** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:36 pm

It's not like Wildstorm was burning up the charts the last several years. Even the worst stuff now seems to be par for the course for these characters since the line's heyday. As part of the DCU, there's a better chance of (eventually) having quality creators on long runs for the characters.

by **Doc Jon** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:48 pm

DC doesn't get how to use the characters. That's plainly obvious.

by **Doc Jon** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:01 pm

Taking a Marvel Knights approach to Wildstorm would have been a good idea.

You could have:
WildCATS: a group that has been working covertly in the DCU for years.
Checkmate: the watchgroup that actually opposes the WildCATS and wants to bring them in. This is a much more secretive group and the black bag portion of the government.
Suicide Squad: Chackmate's premier hit squad.
Grifter: could be a solo title, but I would put him with the WildCATS to start.
Stormwatch: I would go back to the Ellis run here. The organization is the watchmen of the superhero world. Divided into separate teams, their job is to keep the superhuman population in check (good and bad) and to watch out for that new league that is becoming too powerful.
Gen 13/DV8: Something could be done here as direct opposition to groups like the Titans. Maybe start is as DV8, a group of young kids trained by the government and eventually have a group like Gen 13 break away.

by **Juan Cena** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:24 am

Doc Jon wrote:DC doesn't get how to use the characters. That's plainly obvious.

DC barely knows how to use it's own characters.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand

Not really. They're totally f**king clueless.

by **draco x** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:01 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:It sucks just like whenever DC decides to take control of Wildstorm.

Stormwatch started off interesting and just got stupid, this new Grifter take sucks, Voodoo is basically the Species movie with Daemonites thrown in, Gen13 which i was never a fan of sucks even more with Mackie writing Fairchild and also Warblade, And the new Daemonites are annoyingly bad. We traded from Helspont and Defile to the Black Curate?

Wildstorm had been on a high with the Authority, Wildcats Moores run v2 & 3.0, Sleeper, the book written by the guy that lied about being an army ranger and a bunch of other titles in-between.

Then DC got more hands on with that Captain Atom mini which failed with Worldstorm getting aborted (except Stormwatch PHD that was great). Then the years of buildup towards Worlds End happened which never seemed to end. Ever.

Now we get this load of shit where everything is sanitised to fit into the DC Universe.

So agreed, bro. I couldn't have put it any better. That Captain Atom mini was shit all over in my opinion especially with him acting like a Superman fanboy by saying Majestic is almost as strong as Supes. I also hate how Captain Atom was able to punk the Wildcats and Authority( Who would wipe the floor with him anyday). It would have been better if they had the Eradicator in the mini instead as he would fit in right in the Wildstorm Universe.
Like I said before, my main gripe will be how marginalized the WS characters will be like the Milestone ones. Plus with Didio in charge, I predict that most of the characters will be killed off.

by **draco x** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:05 pm

Fat Ollie Weeks wrote:It definitely doesn't compare to the best of Wildstorm, but there was a lot of bad Wildstorm before, too.

True but at least when they were in their own universe, at least they had their own uniqueness. I have no problems with the characters from both universes interacting but they should stay in their own universe. For example, I liked when Majestic came to the DC Universe and was at odds with almost everyone due to how extreme he was and I like the interaction he had with Superman and Lois. I also liked how he one-shotted the Eradicator with one punch before they ended up being friends.

by **draco x** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Doc Jon wrote:Taking a Marvel Knights approach to Wildstorm would have been a good idea.

You could have:
WildCATS: a group that has been working covertly in the DCU for years.
Checkmate: the watchgroup that actually opposes the WildCATS and wants to bring them in. This is a much more secretive group and the black bag portion of the government.
Suicide Squad: Chackmate's premier hit squad.
Grifter: could be a solo title, but I would put him with the WildCATS to start.
Stormwatch: I would go back to the Ellis run here. The organization is the watchmen of the superhero world. Divided into separate teams, their job is to keep the superhuman population in check (good and bad) and to watch out for that new league that is becoming too powerful.
Gen 13/DV8: Something could be done here as direct opposition to groups like the Titans. Maybe start is as DV8, a group of young kids trained by the government and eventually have a group like Gen 13 break away.

Interesting but my approach would be to keep them in their own universes but would have interactions with each other on a various basis. Seeing as how Earth 2 is returning in 52, I would have had the Wildstorm characters frequently visit the DC Universe and have their extreme methods constantly rub the DC heroes the wrong way.

My take on your idea would be:

Global Guardians/ Storm Watch( 12 issue miniseries)
Teen Titans/ Gen 13( One-Shot)
Batman/ Superman vs Midnighter/ Apollo( One-Shot)
Doom Patrol/ Wildcats( One-Shot)
Challengers Of The Unknown/ Planetary( One-Shot)
Checkmate/ Black Razor( 3 Issue miniseries)
Eradicator: Wildstorm Universe( 12 issue miniseries-more preferable to that
crappy Captain Atom: Worldstorm garbage)
Daemonites Vs Bloodlines Parasites( One-Shot)
Azrael( Jean Paul Valley)/ Grifter( One-Shot)
Justice League Of America/ Authority( One-Shot)
Firestorm/ Void( One-Shot)

More to come.....

by **draco x** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:19 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
DC barely knows how to use it's own characters.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Not really. They're totally f**king clueless.

So agreed. DC only cares about Batman and Superman and all other characters for the most part usually get marginalized.

by **draco x** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:21 pm

Doc Jon wrote:DC doesn't get how to use the characters. That's plainly obvious.

So right. They're going to make the WS characters play second-banana to the DC ones. For example, should Batman and Midnighter ever meet, they are going to make Bats punk Mids, despite the fact that Midnighter would destroy Batman in a toe-to-toe fight. I would even hate to imagine how Stormwatch are going to look like scrubs against the JLA-which will most likely happen.