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Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:12 am

Zechs wrote:AND THE WARRIOR WILL REIGN DOWN UPON YOU NACIREMAN!!! AND HE WILL TELL YOU! USE THE PARACHUTE!!! THUS THE GODS WILL UP THE HEAVENS THEMSELVES TO SAY TO YOU!


That reminds me,I gotta find some new stuff for that thread I hijacked...
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:12 am

Zechs wrote:AND THE WARRIOR WILL REIGN DOWN UPON YOU NACIREMAN!!! AND HE WILL TELL YOU! USE THE PARACHUTE!!! THUS THE GODS WILL UP THE HEAVENS THEMSELVES TO SAY TO YOU!


That reminds me,I gotta find some new stuff for that thread I hijacked...
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GLX

Outhouse Editor

Postby GLX » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:09 am

Zechs wrote:Yep, and the sad thing is why? Because in manga there is a beginning and there is an end. There is no end in American comics.


It depends on the comic.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:49 am

GLX wrote:It depends on the comic.


There is always an end to a manga. It just depends on how long the author wants to end them.
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thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:52 pm

Zechs wrote:There is always an end to a manga. It just depends on how long the author wants to end them.

not really, cause Naruto and a few others seem to have no ending in sight.

this argument pops up all the time - Manga will overtake in America..... blah blah blah. Yet Manga companies have been hit worse by the economy in the US than comics companies. IDW and Boom! are making strides at being competition to Marvel and DC... the top selling mangas perform worse with each successive release and the growth that was seen in big box stores for Manga seems to be shrinking again. Manga had a leg up in the bookstore market, returnability... this has also been its biggest problem in the last two years as record returns from Borders and Barnes and Noble have put several companies in financial straights.... Yes they are seeing a resurgance in Japan due to subsidizing, I for one would rather have a product that is not being sponsored by the government, but whatever.

Manga isn't going anywhere anytime soon and neither are traditional American comics. it is really time to stop having a versus discussion and start having a co-habitation discussion, because there are Manga out there that will appeal to the more traditional US comics reader and even more for the alternative comics fan, but as long as the Naruto/Dragonball set want to make it a versus statement (and the tights and capes US set, as well) - neither format is being done justice.
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Alex Delarge

Post Whore

Postby Alex Delarge » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:05 pm

thefourthman wrote:not really, cause Naruto and a few others seem to have no ending in sight.

this argument pops up all the time - Manga will overtake in America..... blah blah blah. Yet Manga companies have been hit worse by the economy in the US than comics companies. IDW and Boom! are making strides at being competition to Marvel and DC... the top selling mangas perform worse with each successive release and the growth that was seen in big box stores for Manga seems to be shrinking again. Manga had a leg up in the bookstore market, returnability... this has also been its biggest problem in the last two years as record returns from Borders and Barnes and Noble have put several companies in financial straights.... Yes they are seeing a resurgance in Japan due to subsidizing, I for one would rather have a product that is not being sponsored by the government, but whatever.

Manga isn't going anywhere anytime soon and neither are traditional American comics. it is really time to stop having a versus discussion and start having a co-habitation discussion, because there are Manga out there that will appeal to the more traditional US comics reader and even more for the alternative comics fan, but as long as the Naruto/Dragonball set want to make it a versus statement (and the tights and capes US set, as well) - neither format is being done justice.


I think some publishers make the mistake of misunderstanding Manga. It isn't entirely defined by the art style, and that is the first thing that American publishers latch onto when they do Wolverine: Manga or Spider-Man: Manga or Batman: Manga. There are two components to Manga: the art style and the format. I am not a big fan of the style, but I love the format and I don't mean the backwards reading. What I mean by the format is a self-contained story in an anthology series. No spin-offs or other bullshit, just the story in one place over a long period of time. None of this Jack of Fables or The Literals bullshit.

I am very interesting in stories told in the Manga format with traditional American art, with clean lines and colorful panels. Marvel should take the opportunity to publish a magazine format for some of their all-ages titles, with different stories dedicated to different characters. This is the way, in my opinion Ultimate Marvel should have been done.

For example: One magazine called Ultimate Marvel with the ongoing exploits of Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Avengers. Each with a consistant art style, so that new creative teams do not jar the readership. I think there is demand for that. A lot more demand that current comic readership thinks. If there was a consistant X-Men book, one book, with consistant art and story that didn't change much, but progressed the overall story along, it would sell well and for a longer period of time without the need for crossovers and that horseshit.

Instead what we have is this patchwork design of new creative teams that create ebbs and flows in sales and GUARANTEES that no title will sell consistantly well for any period of time. I fucking hate it and I wish things would change to the way they used to be, when for instance, Superman stories were consistantly told, both in art and storytelling.

Don't get me wrong, I love change in terms of characters growing and dying and learning and what have you, but whenever I see a new artist or new writer piss on all the progress made by the previous team, it really, really turns me off to the point that sometimes I think about quitting comics because I get tired of that goddamn cycle.
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thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:28 pm

Alex Delarge wrote:I think some publishers make the mistake of misunderstanding Manga. It isn't entirely defined by the art style, and that is the first thing that American publishers latch onto when they do Wolverine: Manga or Spider-Man: Manga or Batman: Manga. There are two components to Manga: the art style and the format. I am not a big fan of the style, but I love the format and I don't mean the backwards reading. What I mean by the format is a self-contained story in an anthology series. No spin-offs or other bullshit, just the story in one place over a long period of time. None of this Jack of Fables or The Literals bullshit.

I am very interesting in stories told in the Manga format with traditional American art, with clean lines and colorful panels. Marvel should take the opportunity to publish a magazine format for some of their all-ages titles, with different stories dedicated to different characters. This is the way, in my opinion Ultimate Marvel should have been done.

For example: One magazine called Ultimate Marvel with the ongoing exploits of Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Avengers. Each with a consistant art style, so that new creative teams do not jar the readership. I think there is demand for that. A lot more demand that current comic readership thinks. If there was a consistant X-Men book, one book, with consistant art and story that didn't change much, but progressed the overall story along, it would sell well and for a longer period of time without the need for crossovers and that horseshit.

Instead what we have is this patchwork design of new creative teams that create ebbs and flows in sales and GUARANTEES that no title will sell consistantly well for any period of time. I fucking hate it and I wish things would change to the way they used to be, when for instance, Superman stories were consistantly told, both in art and storytelling.

Don't get me wrong, I love change in terms of characters growing and dying and learning and what have you, but whenever I see a new artist or new writer piss on all the progress made by the previous team, it really, really turns me off to the point that sometimes I think about quitting comics because I get tired of that goddamn cycle.

I disagree with very little of what you have to say here. But the companies are going to go after the almighty dollar and unfortunately for us, the dollar chases the events and the crossovers.

There needs to be a happy medium, I think what DC has done with Strange Adventures (and the majority of their space opera stuff since 52) has been a good idea, I also think Wednesday comics is a good idea. I think Marvel is close with Spider-Man Family, but it should just replace all the spidy books, not be in addition too and is even closer with Astonishing tales... were they walk the line of characters not featured in books and fan service short stories with the likes of their marquee characters.

However, we are not going to see many DC or Marvel books jump to GN or trade only collections anytime soon, the slow reaction to a mainstay like Love & Rockets when it switched to the format is going to keep them weary to try it themselves.

There are no easy solutions, but the constant "Manga is superior..." "No comics are..." bickering is bullshit and needs to end, because in the end, they are all comics.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:30 pm

thefourthman wrote:not really, cause Naruto and a few others seem to have no ending in sight.

this argument pops up all the time - Manga will overtake in America..... blah blah blah. Yet Manga companies have been hit worse by the economy in the US than comics companies. IDW and Boom! are making strides at being competition to Marvel and DC... the top selling mangas perform worse with each successive release and the growth that was seen in big box stores for Manga seems to be shrinking again. Manga had a leg up in the bookstore market, returnability... this has also been its biggest problem in the last two years as record returns from Borders and Barnes and Noble have put several companies in financial straights.... Yes they are seeing a resurgance in Japan due to subsidizing, I for one would rather have a product that is not being sponsored by the government, but whatever.

Manga isn't going anywhere anytime soon and neither are traditional American comics. it is really time to stop having a versus discussion and start having a co-habitation discussion, because there are Manga out there that will appeal to the more traditional US comics reader and even more for the alternative comics fan, but as long as the Naruto/Dragonball set want to make it a versus statement (and the tights and capes US set, as well) - neither format is being done justice.


Um.. you're kinda wrong in Naruto given..

[spoiler]

It's finally leading up to Naruto facing down the big bad guy of the series and Sasuke again. There's no other bad guys almost left on the board with the Pein fight finally at it's end. But still there's three or four more years like of no doubt story and fights to tell.

As for other series like Bleach it's hard to tell at the moment if this is the final battle or not. But again it appears that way though still another two years before this current battle that's going on in that will see it's end and no doubt after that will we possibly see the final battle and even then that might take a few more years.

[/spoiler]


Still regardless the series will end. Inu Yasha after a lengthy period met it's end last year. Same goes for Dragonball. The series can last a very long time. But there will be closure to it in the end. And if it returns it'll be via a reboot or if it's an anime or OVA they'll follow the manga more (such as the case with Hellsing Ultimate and the new Full Metal Alchemist).
User avatar

thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:38 pm

Zechs wrote:Um.. you're kinda wrong in Naruto given..

[spoiler]

It's finally leading up to Naruto facing down the big bad guy of the series and Sasuke again. There's no other bad guys almost left on the board with the Pein fight finally at it's end. But still there's three or four more years like of no doubt story and fights to tell.

As for other series like Bleach it's hard to tell at the moment if this is the final battle or not. But again it appears that way though still another two years before this current battle that's going on in that will see it's end and no doubt after that will we possibly see the final battle and even then that might take a few more years.

[/spoiler]


Still regardless the series will end. Inu Yasha after a lengthy period met it's end last year. Same goes for Dragonball. The series can last a very long time. But there will be closure to it in the end. And if it returns it'll be via a reboot or if it's an anime or OVA they'll follow the manga more (such as the case with Hellsing Ultimate and the new Full Metal Alchemist).

Naruto currently has 45 volumes in Japan and is still being published serially weekly. It is considered an Ongoing, just like Invincible, Spider-Man, etc... Maybe on day it will end, but not any time soon.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:42 pm

thefourthman wrote:Naruto currently has 45 volumes in Japan and is still being published serially weekly. It is considered an Ongoing, just like Invincible, Spider-Man, etc... Maybe on day it will end, but not any time soon.


But eventually it will. There is no end to Spidey.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:46 pm

who gives a shit? manga sucks.










:P :P :-D
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:47 pm

chap22 wrote:who gives a shit? manga sucks.










:P :P :-D



You're opinion would mean something but since your a fan of Rulk it is now INVALID!!
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thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:54 pm

Zechs wrote:But eventually it will. There is no end to Spidey.

If Spider-Man suddenly stopped selling, then it would end. There are very few titles that just go on and on like Spider-Man and Superman. Most books end due to sales or with books like 100 Bullets, Y or Ex Machina because they had an ending planned.

There is very little reason to just end a book that sells and that writers are still excited to write if there is an audience for them.

You have no way of knowing that Naruto will end, just that all signs point to it ending. I doubt very seriously that when Tezuka wrote his long "Greatest Robot in the World" arc for Astro Boy that he ever dreamed that many years later Urusawa would take that same story and take it from half a digest to 8 digests in length. It is a renewal of the old concept and something that happens in all mediums. In fact, the rare return to older concepts in Manga leads me to think that we will see much more of it in the future, especially given the response to Pluto. It is just something they never really did before, but if there is money to be gleaned from doing it, you can be sure that business people will make it happen.
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chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:57 pm

Zechs wrote:You're opinion would mean something but since your a fan of Rulk it is now INVALID!!

Rulk >>>> manga.


fact.
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ThrillHouse

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby ThrillHouse » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:57 pm

chap22 wrote:Rulk >>>> manga.


fact.


(braces self)

Agreed.

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