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LSH #23 Final issue

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nietoperz
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby nietoperz » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:14 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:
You'd think that such a caring and devoted fan would realize that the ending reveal explains what the fuck has been going on in this title all along and might .. just might .. open the door for the next "Legion" series :lol:

EDIT: Damn, Nieto beat me to it :lol:

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[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
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Bingo.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:15 am

nietoperz wrote:
Flashpoint happened in all continuities and affected the entire multiverse. In other words: it makes sense.


Wait, what? I actually didn't know that -- was that referenced in the main series, which I had hoped to never read again but now might have to? Or elsewhere?

I honestly didn't know that.
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:16 am

Right. Flashpoint was caused by Barry Allen accidentally messing with the time-stream which afterwards caused the time-travel problems in the DCU(s).
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Chesscub » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:17 am

nietoperz wrote:
Flashpoint happened in all continuities and affected the entire multiverse. In other words: it makes sense.


I'm not sure I saw that referenced anywhere. I do recall that the Flashpoint caused a merger of New Earth and Earth 50 (Wildstorm)

I can accept that explanation.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby nietoperz » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:18 am

Flashpoint happened, full stop. Stuff from before Flashpoint, however, did not thanks to Flash messing up the time stream.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:19 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Yeah, wow. It was...painful, wasn't it?

I disagree with you about what Johns did, as you know -- he wasn't the problem with the Legion. He tried to fix what was broken long before he touched the property, and while you and I don't agree on the fix, I don't think there's much doubt that the property was critically ill long before "Legion of Three Worlds."


The problem with that statement is that Johns really didn't fix things, and he made some things worse. He ignored the Legion's underlying structural problems (aging team, continuity issues), and managed to make thing worse in some cases. Look at all the continuity issues that cropped up when Johns came back, and were left unanswered by him and Levitz.

Worse, it seemed that Johns was less interested in reestablishing the Legion as a property that could stand on its own, and more of a conduit for characters he seemed to care more about, like Superboy Prime, Conner Kent, and Bart Allen. Lo3W seemed more focused on them than it was on the actual Legion (or Legions, as the case may be.) Look how quick he dumped writing the Legion backups in Adventure after the book was revived.







Paul Levitz set it up for anyone to pick it up in the future, though yeah, there were some brutal endings to some characters in this final arc.


Sadly the damage to the Legion now is so bad that any new book with the "classic" team would feel more like a FYG-type of book. I honestly don't feel Legion works in a dystopian setting like that series was. It works best in a "Star Trek" kind of setting, where Earth and its allies are the good guys, and not a "Babylon 5"-like "us against the universe" setting, so to speak.

But nothing in this industry is forever, so we're just going to have to settle in for a wait, hope that a creator comes in with a good take on the Legion and does well with it, if/when it returns.


I seriously think it's gonna be five years or more before anyone thinks of touching Legion again at DC. Probably not until the next DCU reboot.
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby nietoperz » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:21 am

As an aside, this also explains why the LSH that appeared in Grant Morrison's Action Comics run was so different, as well as why JL3000 won't reference the Legion at all. Multiverse FTW.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:24 am

Chesscub wrote:
I'm not sure I saw that referenced anywhere. I do recall that the Flashpoint caused a merger of New Earth and Earth 50 (Wildstorm)

I can accept that explanation.


Huh...I can, as well, but now I'm confused about John Constantine and Swamp Thing; where is that John Constantine from, then? I realize it doesn't really matter, but are we saying that the Vertigo Constantine and Swamp Thing really have nothing to do with these interpretations?

Again, I'm fine with that, but I don't know where the hell the Brightest Day John Constantine came from, if he's not the Vertigo John Constantine?
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Chesscub » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:25 am

Personally I wish they'd go back to the post Zero Hour Legion.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:27 am

nietoperz wrote:
Flashpoint happened in all continuities and affected the entire multiverse. In other words: it makes sense.


Only Levitz really didn't do much to present a Legion that had been actually changed by Flashpoint. It would have been easy to use Flashpoint as a way to tweak things like the teams' age and relationship with Superman and Supergirl, but he and DC didn't. Heck, Supes and the Legion never had contact with each other when the series was revived in 08-09.
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
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Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby nietoperz » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:29 am

Chesscub wrote:Personally I wish they'd go back to the post Zero Hour Legion.


5YG for me.

And most of the Vertigo Constantine stuff is out of continuity now. The Alan Moore stuff is still canon, though, along with stuff like The Books of Magic.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:30 am

nietoperz wrote:As an aside, this also explains why the LSH that appeared in Grant Morrison's Action Comics run was so different, as well as why JL3000 won't reference the Legion at all. Multiverse FTW.


It also may explain why in "Legion Lost" when they got back to the future for that one issue that they found future Earth completely devastated and abandoned. Either that's the future of the main Earth or they wound up on some alternate Earth again.


ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Huh...I can, as well, but now I'm confused about John Constantine and Swamp Thing; where is that John Constantine from, then? I realize it doesn't really matter, but are we saying that the Vertigo Constantine and Swamp Thing really have nothing to do with these interpretations?

Again, I'm fine with that, but I don't know where the hell the Brightest Day John Constantine came from, if he's not the Vertigo John Constantine?


At the end of Flashpoint, the New Earth, Vertigo and Wildstorm universes were all merged to form the current DCU.
Last edited by IvCNuB4 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:32 am

nietoperz wrote:
5YG for me.

And most of the Vertigo Constantine stuff is out of continuity now. The Alan Moore stuff is still canon, though, along with stuff like The Books of Magic.


See, that's just confusing. Tim Hunter was in Justice League Dark, and he clearly was the Tim Hunter from Books of Magic, which is fine...man. So basically, it's better to think of them like the John Constantine and Swamp Thing from...1987? Maybe?
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*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Chesscub » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:32 am

nietoperz wrote:
5YG for me.

And most of the Vertigo Constantine stuff is out of continuity now. The Alan Moore stuff is still canon, though, along with stuff like The Books of Magic.


5YG is where I started. Those were some really good issues as well if a little confusing for a newbie (the Glorith/Valor stuff near the beginning) Issue 38 (Earth dies) was just an amazing issue.

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:35 am

Chesscub wrote:
5YG is where I started. Those were some really good issues as well if a little confusing for a newbie (the Glorith/Valor stuff near the beginning) Issue 38 (Earth dies) was just an amazing issue.


See, it's tougher for me -- I'm going to have to make peace with the fact that the Legion I prefer, the pre-COIE version...they just can't be retrieved. They're just gone. I think Johns did his best, but it's been too long, too many reboots.

The version I prefer is just...gone. So, I'll just have to see what they bring next and do my best to judge that on its own merits. Tougher for me to do, but not impossible.
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*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

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