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LSH #23 Final issue

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Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:36 am

nietoperz wrote:Basically, this LSH has been the Earth 2 Legion, and is now disbanded.



Bullcrap. That sounds like a juryrigged last-minute stunt to explain how it could get away with all the crap pulled the past few issues. Which is sadly appropriate for a series that was juryrigged from the start.

There was at NO POINT in the series where it was suggested that this was on Earth-2 or any of the other 52 Earths. It just goes to show how pi$$-poor the entire classic revival was handled.

Besides, it's a big middle finger to fans who still wanted to believe that this really was the team they grew up with. The book might just as well ended with the last page having a big picture of Didio, Johns, Leivtz, and Harras yelling "SUCKERS!"
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
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ElijahSnowFan
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:41 am

Juan Cena wrote:

Bullcrap. That sounds like a juryrigged last-minute stunt to explain how it could get away with all the crap pulled the past few issues. Which is sadly appropriate for a series that was juryrigged from the start.

There was at NO POINT in the series where it was suggested that this was on Earth-2 or any of the other 52 Earths. It just goes to show how pi$$-poor the entire classic revival was handled.

Besides, it's a big middle finger to fans who still wanted to believe that this really was the team they grew up with. The book might just as well ended with the last page having a big picture of Didio, Johns, Leivtz, and Harras yelling "SUCKERS!"


First of all, anything Bob Harras EiCs is subject to piss-poor handling. His DC tenure looks just like his Marvel tenure, which was the subject of an incredibly detailed blog that someone posted, and Harras' Marvel tenure...time hasn't dulled just how bad it was, in my book.

That being said...does it really matter, anymore? When Flashpoint happened and they rebooted Legion again, I knew then that it was the death knell for the franchise. They just couldn't withstand that.

You're not wrong -- yeah, they're trying to link it to Earth 2, after the fact. But it doesn't matter in this regard: They'd already made the property toxic, to begin with.
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*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 am

Juan Cena wrote:
There was at NO POINT in the series where it was suggested that this was on Earth-2 or any of the other 52 Earths. It just goes to show how pi$$-poor the entire classic revival was handled.


What about your famous complaint that in this version Validus wasn't one of the Ranzz/Ardeen twins ? That's one big clue this is a different Earth.
Last edited by IvCNuB4 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Wait, what? I actually didn't know that -- was that referenced in the main series, which I had hoped to never read again but now might have to? Or elsewhere?

I honestly didn't know that.


That's the point. It never was.

This was a band-aid on a six-foot gash. And it only makes sense if you read Earth-2.

I'm even twice as pi$$ed now than I was this morning when I read the book in the first place.

I don't believe one fracking moment that this was the intent of the current series from the start.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:44 am

Juan Cena wrote:
That's the point. It never was.

This was a band-aid on a six-foot gash. And it only makes sense if you read Earth-2.

I'm even twice as pi$$ed now than I was this morning when I read the book in the first place.

I don't believe one fracking moment that this was the intent of the current series from the start.


Ha! Again, you're going to catch up to the rest of the thread soon enough, but as I said, I agree with you: They are trying to link it, after the fact.

You're right, man. That was not the intention from the start.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:
What about your famous complaint that in this version Validus wasn't one of the Ranzz/Ardeen twins ? That's one big clue this is a different Earth.


Only the Validus stuff began with Johns using him in Lo3W, when the "classic" team was SUPPOSED to be the ACTUAL Legion of the main DCU Earth.

This is a total cop-out from DC trying to cover their @$$ and you know it.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:49 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! Again, you're going to catch up to the rest of the thread soon enough, but as I said, I agree with you: They are trying to link it, after the fact.

You're right, man. That was not the intention from the start.


That's what happens when I really try hard to write a post that's clear and coherent. :roll: You should have seen the thing I posted to my Deadspin/Kinja blog last night.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

IvCNuB4
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:05 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:Wait, what? I actually didn't know that -- was that referenced in the main series, which I had hoped to never read again but now might have to? Or elsewhere?

I honestly didn't know that.


Juan Cena wrote:That's the point. It never was.


Look at it this way. Apokolips exists outside of normal space/time which is why there is only one Apokolips for the entire multiverse. Since Apokolips was altered along with the DCNU then it's logical that the Flashpoint effect affected every alternate Earth also.

As to whether it was planned from the issue #1 that this was Earth 2, we're probably never going to know that :D
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:06 am

Juan Cena wrote:
That's what happens when I really try hard to write a post that's clear and coherent. :roll: You should have seen the thing I posted to my Deadspin/Kinja blog last night.


Ha! No worries, man -- as I said, I don't agree with you much on the topic, but I do respect the fact that you stuck it out, read it all.

We both want to read a good Legion book, like everyone else who cares about the property. The franchise needs, or will need, readers, and it's good that you care.
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

ElijahSnowFan
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:08 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:


Look at it this way. Apokolips exists outside of normal space/time which is why there is only one Apokolips for the entire multiverse. Since Apokolips was altered along with the DCNU then it's logical that the Flashpoint effect affected every alternate Earth also.

As to whether it was planned from the issue #1 that this was Earth 2, we're probably never going to know that :D


Ha! I get it, now -- what you guys have been saying makes a lot of sense, now.

Sooooo...without further delay...

DAMN YOU, BARRY ALLEN! DAMN YOU! YOU WERE BETTER OFF DEAD!!!! :smt013 :smt013 :smt013 :-D :-D :-D
Image

*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:23 am

IvCNuB4 wrote:


Look at it this way. Apokolips exists outside of normal space/time which is why there is only one Apokolips for the entire multiverse. Since Apokolips was altered along with the DCNU then it's logical that the Flashpoint effect affected every alternate Earth also.

As to whether it was planned from the issue #1 that this was Earth 2, we're probably never going to know that :D


And there's the problem. DC can now drop the "this didn't happen on Earth-1" whenever they want. How soon does this happen with Wonder Woman? Or any other title Geoff Johns decides he can't wrap his head around?

It's SBP-wall-punching at its worst.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

Juan Cena
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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:25 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:
Ha! No worries, man -- as I said, I don't agree with you much on the topic, but I do respect the fact that you stuck it out, read it all.

We both want to read a good Legion book, like everyone else who cares about the property. The franchise needs, or will need, readers, and it's good that you care.


You know what's sad? There were probably a half-dozen true SF ideas used by Hickman in the new issue of Avengers alone. That may be more than Levitz used in the past two Legion titles.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Chesscub » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:32 am

Well to defuse tensions, I give you some sketches that I got at the Boston Comicon of the most important Legionnaire of all time.


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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:41 am

:smt023
Victorian Squid wrote:In a DC/Marvel cross-over "all your favorite Marvel characters would catch contextually-transmitted diseases and Steph infections."

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Re: LSH #23 Final issue

Postby Punchy » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:56 am

I think this Earth-2 reveal is actually pretty darn clever.

It means that when they do get around to rebooting the Legion and have it be the Earth-1 versions, they have carte blanche to do whatever they want, to go back to the classics, or to do something new.

I've long said that they should give the Legion to someone fresh and new from the Indies and let them go fucking nuts with no continuity, this is their opportunity.
Last edited by Punchy on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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