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Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three days

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Keb » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:04 am

I probably will when they launch an Android app.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:43 am

mrorangesoda wrote:
I've long had issues about the ownership/drm issues about comixology. Server issues do nothing to resolve that.


I'm a huge proponent of digital comics and I also have issue with the licensing model, not just in comics. The right of first sale is important. Once you buy a copy of something you should own that copy. I believe this shifty and unfair business model really holds digital comics back.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby 3MJ » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:40 am

David Bird wrote:BTW, does anyone here use Marvel Unlimited? How is it?


I had it, then had read pretty much everything I wanted on there so stopped for a while. Will get it again soon. If you don't mind being a bit behind, it's absolutely awesome.

The one nightmare is often there will be an issue missing from an arc in a really frustrating place for no apparent reason.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Victorian Squid » Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:44 am

People who bought comics through comixology regularly couldn't access their books, and in some cases it sounds like books that were paid for by those customers were also held up in the downloading stage and were inaccessible to many.

Why WOULDN'T they complain? :?

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby David Bird » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:16 am

Jubilee wrote:
I had it, then had read pretty much everything I wanted on there so stopped for a while. Will get it again soon. If you don't mind being a bit behind, it's absolutely awesome.

The one nightmare is often there will be an issue missing from an arc in a really frustrating place for no apparent reason.


How late is it? I've heard 6 months, but I've also heard it can be longer.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Arion » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:29 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I'm a huge proponent of digital comics and I also have issue with the licensing model, not just in comics. The right of first sale is important. Once you buy a copy of something you should own that copy. I believe this shifty and unfair business model really holds digital comics back.


Yeah, if you pay for it then you own it. Or at least you should.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby David Bird » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:56 pm

I decided to give it a try. We'll see.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Victorian Squid » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:21 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
I'm a huge proponent of digital comics and I also have issue with the licensing model, not just in comics. The right of first sale is important. Once you buy a copy of something you should own that copy. I believe this shifty and unfair business model really holds digital comics back.


I don't think it's a problem with DRM specifically, can't encrypted files be downloaded?

It's a larger problem with this whole "cloud"-based idea, isn't it? I thought you were a huge proponent of "the cloud" as you called it, before they started raining on everybody, weren't you? Doesn't that idea of how data is managed and stored preclude the type of ownership you want for most things?

Keeping in mind that a) I do agree with you on the ownership part of the issue, and personally would never trust that "cloud"-based method of storage for anything I didn't want lost of to lose access to (or at all if I can help it, I like my comics as low-tech as possible). b) I think IP owners should take whatever measures they can to protect against piracy to whatever extent they can. c) I don't think people will stop stealing content no matter how it's packaged or sold or stored, and I think your most ideal method for selling and storing would just make it easier for people to do so.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Keb » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:41 pm

After doing a lot of research on cloud computing for my last writing gig, I think it's just as flawed as hard storage. It's really just a matter of users making the decision of what is best for them.

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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:23 am

Victorian Squid wrote:
I don't think it's a problem with DRM specifically, can't encrypted files be downloaded?

It's a larger problem with this whole "cloud"-based idea, isn't it? I thought you were a huge proponent of "the cloud" as you called it, before they started raining on everybody, weren't you? Doesn't that idea of how data is managed and stored preclude the type of ownership you want for most things?

Keeping in mind that a) I do agree with you on the ownership part of the issue, and personally would never trust that "cloud"-based method of storage for anything I didn't want lost of to lose access to (or at all if I can help it, I like my comics as low-tech as possible). b) I think IP owners should take whatever measures they can to protect against piracy to whatever extent they can. c) I don't think people will stop stealing content no matter how it's packaged or sold or stored, and I think your most ideal method for selling and storing would just make it easier for people to do so.


Comixology does not allow you to download files. You can download software or mp3s or video that has DRM, and you can crack it, but the point is that the majority of people don't have the skill or time or desire to bother with that. So what are their options? Deal with shitty, locked down content that only works on certain devices and can't be used freely, or just go pirate the shit for free? I think DRM makes piracy the more attractive option, and that's why it's stupid and doesn't work.

I think most people don't mind paying a fair price for stuff. I think people want companies, particularly entertainment companies, to succeed and make money and continue to produce entertainment for them. DRM doesn't work. It hasn't stopped piracy at all. Anything you could possibly want is available to torrent or whatever because people just break the fucking DRM. So what good is it doing, other than to be a pain in the ass for consumers who legally purchase this content? Absolutely none.

As for Comixology, they offer cloud based content, but like I said, you can't download it. I think the cloud is great, but I think that's got nothing to do with this, which is an issue of licensing and right of first sale, and the idea that corporations want to take this right away. They are salivating over a business model where they charge you per use for this stuff. Every time you want to listen to something or watch something or read something, they would love for you to pay for it. That's where they're trying to lead the industries. I think it's bullshit.

The cloud is a distributed computing and storage solution, and you could use it wisely, or you could use it shittily,which is what Comixology is doing. Moreso though, they were just managing their service shittily in general. And if their servers were true cloud servers, they could have expanded their capacity to meet the need. That's the service Amazon offers with their cloud computing. In fact, this type of server overload is exactly the kind of thing cloud computing is a solution for.

I have to believe Comixology's servers are underprovisioned. They're obviously at a point where they have the capacity to meet their normal usage and can't cope with an increase. That's a shitty way to do business.
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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 am

Piracy has always existed. Before the internet, it just required actual work. Now, all it takes is one person. One single person to make a copy of something available, and it can be distributed instantly to the entire world.

DRM is never going to stop that. It's retarded.

I do believe IP owners should protect their property. I believe they deserve to make a profit, and I think they need to make a profit (or else how will artists make a profit and continue to produce art). But to believe that DRM has any positive effect at all requires a complete lack of understanding of how technology has changed the world over the last twenty years.

It's just not a solution. Even Comixology's files get ripped, and they don't even let you download them. It's simply not possible. The pirates and the hackers will always be ahead of the corporations on ability to crack DRM.

What pirates can't compete with a company like Comixology on, however, is quality and service. But it looks like Comixology (or the industry in general) is blowing it there because they're focusing on the insane, unacheivable goal of somehow putting a lock on all their content. It's not gonna happen. Give it up and focus on making your product so good that people will pay for it rather than download a free, crappier version.

I'm not advocating piracy or excusing it. It's just a reality. It exists. It's not gonna be beat with litigation or with DRM. The sooner companies wake up and realize that, the sooner they'll figure out how to be profitable in the modern age without screwing over their paying customers and bleeding them dry.
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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:48 am

Keb wrote:After doing a lot of research on cloud computing for my last writing gig, I think it's just as flawed as hard storage. It's really just a matter of users making the decision of what is best for them.


Everything is flawed. Cloud computing has vast advantages in many situations.
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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:55 am

For instance, in the case of preservation, a distributed model is far superior. Things like Bit Torrent, cloud storage, they offer the ability to have redundant copies of important information all over the world.

Imagine if I had some really important files. I could make a copy on a hard drive and stick it in my closet, but if my house burns down, I've still lost both copies. I could take a copy and put in a safety deposit box at the bank, but if an earthquake destroys my town, I've lost both copies.

If, however, there were thousands of copies of my files all over the world, it would be effectively indestructible, except in the case of some catastrophic world event.

Imagine we're not talking about my old band recordings, but instead we're talking about something really important. Like maybe, most of the knowledge of the ancient world. Wouldn't it suck if that was kept in hard storage in one spot and got destroyed? Yeah, I think so.

I like hard drives. I like keeping my own backups of stuff. I like having control over it. But there are situations where a distributed model is better.

The same goes for cloud computing, it has scalability and flexibility that's simply impossible to match with a single machine or group of machines.

Same for serving, when you have a CDN, you can serve content as fast to Fieldy Snuts in Australia as you can to Royal Nonesuch in New York City, because Fieldy gets the copy stored in your Melbourne data center, and Royal gets the one in NYC.
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Re: Marvel announces new plan to crash Comixology for three

Postby Victorian Squid » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:07 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
Comixology does not allow you to download files. You can download software or mp3s or video that has DRM, and you can crack it, but the point is that the majority of people don't have the skill or time or desire to bother with that. So what are their options? Deal with shitty, locked down content that only works on certain devices and can't be used freely, or just go pirate the shit for free? I think DRM makes piracy the more attractive option, and that's why it's stupid and doesn't work.

I think most people don't mind paying a fair price for stuff. I think people want companies, particularly entertainment companies, to succeed and make money and continue to produce entertainment for them. DRM doesn't work. It hasn't stopped piracy at all. Anything you could possibly want is available to torrent or whatever because people just break the fucking DRM. So what good is it doing, other than to be a pain in the ass for consumers who legally purchase this content? Absolutely none.

As for Comixology, they offer cloud based content, but like I said, you can't download it. I think the cloud is great, but I think that's got nothing to do with this, which is an issue of licensing and right of first sale, and the idea that corporations want to take this right away. They are salivating over a business model where they charge you per use for this stuff. Every time you want to listen to something or watch something or read something, they would love for you to pay for it. That's where they're trying to lead the industries. I think it's bullshit.

The cloud is a distributed computing and storage solution, and you could use it wisely, or you could use it shittily,which is what Comixology is doing. Moreso though, they were just managing their service shittily in general. And if their servers were true cloud servers, they could have expanded their capacity to meet the need. That's the service Amazon offers with their cloud computing. In fact, this type of server overload is exactly the kind of thing cloud computing is a solution for.

I have to believe Comixology's servers are underprovisioned. They're obviously at a point where they have the capacity to meet their normal usage and can't cope with an increase. That's a shitty way to do business.



Right, right, I already understand all that. You misunderstood me, though, thinking that I was saying comixology allows downloads, I was meaning the opposite (what you end up saying) that there's no reason they couldn't allow direct downloads and still encrypt or protect the content (but I still think it would make things slightly easier to disseminate to pirates).

The Library of Alexandria comparison gets bandied around a lot, but let's face it we've already mass-produced information in print to the extent that it's not really applicable. If civilization collapses, the print will be more accessible because none of those servers would be running for very long or the power needed to access stored data.

Nothing digital will last forever.

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