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X-Men Schism #4 (Spoilers) Discussion

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dairydead

Humuhumunukunukuapuaa

Postby dairydead » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:45 pm

Flynn the Pirate wrote:
... because none of the "children" shown there have not seen combat. Every single one of them has either been involved in a battle or has had a direct hand in killing another human being.

And because when there are less than two hundred of your entire species left and most of your A and B Teams are elsewhere, you have to make the hard decisions.


they've seen combat only because Scott has bred them to become soldiers, and made them believe that they are always under attack and that they NEED to fight to survive. the hard descision would be to sacrifice your home, and not become some over-zealous mutant army like scott would like.
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Flynn the Pirate

OMCTO

Postby Flynn the Pirate » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:57 pm

dairydead wrote:
they've seen combat only because Scott has bred them to become soldiers, and made them believe that they are always under attack and that they NEED to fight to survive. the hard descision would be to sacrifice your home, and not become some over-zealous mutant army like scott would like.


But the reality (yes, I know the irony in using that terminology) is that they are living in a world where many, many of their enemies want nothing more than to wipe them out of existence simply because of that existence. They were chased from New York because they were constantly under attack by these forces, and then chased out of San Francisco proper by government forces.

So yeah, when there are only two hundred (or around that number) of your entire species left and legions of bigots with weapons of mass destruction (or power levels on par with those weapons) bent on seeing you dead simply because you are alive, you had better learn to defend yourself in a hurry.

And it should be noted that Scott is not going on the offensive here. He is arguing for these kids to defend the lives of innocents and to defend their home.
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Eric Ratcliffe

Staff Writer

Postby Eric Ratcliffe » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:46 pm

I go back to my opinion on things in a very simple way:

Joss Whedon was the writer who showed how Scott Summers was a leader on the same level as Steve Rogers...sadly no one has followed up on that.

Logan isn't a leader for the most part but I'd trust him a lot more than the current Cyclops.
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J.M. Hunter

Motherfucker from Hell

Postby J.M. Hunter » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:59 pm

Sakie wrote:
Sorry, I knew I should have worded that differently. While I am definitely more on Scott's side, I am getting a little tired of both of them fingering pointing at the other. At this point, neither of them really have any moral high ground to stand on.



So you figure they should stop the fingering and just whip out the big guns?
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:13 pm

john lewis hawk wrote:If Jean had a brain, she'll get with someone other than those two.


Yeah like Scarlet Witch.


mmmmnnn....
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e_galston

Staff Writer

Postby e_galston » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:26 pm

sdsichero wrote:
Yeah like Scarlet Witch.


mmmmnnn....


wanda only likes mechanical beings, (and in the ultimate universe blood relatives)
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:15 pm

J.M. Hunter wrote:So you figure they should stop the fingering and just whip out the big guns?


No, I would rather they just go their separate ways. Neither Cyclops or Wolverine can take the moral high ground at this point. Fighting each other is pointless at this stage because they don't want to listen to what the other has to say. Clearly this is causing a problem for the safety of the rest of their people who are going to be divided even further by this split.
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Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:20 pm

e_galston wrote:wanda only likes mechanical beings, (and in the ultimate universe blood relatives)


I thought that the blood relative thing was also heavily implied in the 616 universe as well.
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dairydead

Humuhumunukunukuapuaa

Postby dairydead » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:33 pm

Sakie wrote:
No, I would rather they just go their separate ways. Neither Cyclops or Wolverine can take the moral high ground at this point. Fighting each other is pointless at this stage because they don't want to listen to what the other has to say. Clearly this is causing a problem for the safety of the rest of their people who are going to be divided even further by this split.


still doesn't make sense. A person doesn't need to be a saint to understand that a man that is brainwashing children to kill is a bad thing. Sure Wolverine has done some bad things, but in his eyes, that sort of thing has always been his burden to bear. Cyclops doesn't care who's life he ruins, as long as it "protects" his kind.
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Dragavon

Podcaster

Postby Dragavon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:00 pm

john lewis hawk wrote:If Jean had a brain, she'll get with someone other than those two.

This.

Although Scott is behaving like a douche-bag currently, Wolverine has always been a douche-bag.
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:07 pm

Joss Whedon's run would have been much better if Cyclops just died and never came back.

Technically he is a great character, but as a character I hate him. He's a douche his is p-whipped by a former villain, abandoned his wife and child to chase his old girlfriend who he later cheated on, and has shown the leadership capacity far below that of Steve Rogers, Nick Fury or Professor Xavier.

And I'm totally not disagreeing with Doombug here, because Whedon really did some great stuff with Cyclops,.
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contramundi

cheese

Postby contramundi » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:02 pm

team wolvie ftw here
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Timbales

Fisty McDigger

Postby Timbales » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:10 pm

I don't feel there was enough of a a build up, and the final words leading to blows were just too cliche.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:46 pm

Timbales wrote:I don't feel there was enough of a a build up, and the final words leading to blows were just too cliche.


There's been tension between them forever though. Wolverine and Cyclops have always had an antagonistic relationship. And now Wolverine's solution to this problem is to destroy the one thing Cyclops has spent the past few years building: Utopia.

Cyclops feels like Wolverine's pissing on everything he has built and he's prepared to do whatever is necessary to preserve what he see's as a symbol for mutantkind...including enlisting child soldiers.

Wolverine believes that this is the line they can't cross and that while they were willing to do the tough, dirty things to preserve what they'd built there..the main point of it was to not allow the kids to become like them so they'd have a better tomorrow.

Throw in their prior history of them arguing about redheads and you've got the spark to light the fuse of a bomb that's been ready to blow for a while now. They were never the best of friends, but always respected eachothers convictions and goals to get along with eachother for the greater good. But now with all that's been building up throughout Schism they've finally hit that crossroads that's been coming for a long time.

It's not like they were BFF's like Steve Rogers and Tony Stark who beat the crap out of eachother over ideologies. Cyclops and Wolverine were never that tight.
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T.S.S.-72

Rain Partier

Postby T.S.S.-72 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:20 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
There's been tension between them forever though. Wolverine and Cyclops have always had an antagonistic relationship. And now Wolverine's solution to this problem is to destroy the one thing Cyclops has spent the past few years building: Utopia.

Cyclops feels like Wolverine's pissing on everything he has built and he's prepared to do whatever is necessary to preserve what he see's as a symbol for mutantkind...including enlisting child soldiers.

Wolverine believes that this is the line they can't cross and that while they were willing to do the tough, dirty things to preserve what they'd built there..the main point of it was to not allow the kids to become like them so they'd have a better tomorrow.

Throw in their prior history of them arguing about redheads and you've got the spark to light the fuse of a bomb that's been ready to blow for a while now. They were never the best of friends, but always respected eachothers convictions and goals to get along with eachother for the greater good. But now with all that's been building up throughout Schism they've finally hit that crossroads that's been coming for a long time.

It's not like they were BFF's like Steve Rogers and Tony Stark who beat the crap out of eachother over ideologies. Cyclops and Wolverine were never that tight.


Well said!

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