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New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

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Stephen Day
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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby Stephen Day » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:44 pm

habitual wrote:
Ok I just reread this and I don't think you could be more wrong :D

I think what's going to be pivotal in this issue is what we saw the Norn do to the anchor planet, especially in light of the events we see in NA #14 with the steps that Dr. Strange takes at the Resolute Throne in the Lost Lands to empower himself to do the same thing.

Another detail is that whatever it is exactly the Norn does to the anchor planet can't be done by one person, it makes me think that whatever Strange, Doom will also be involved in somehow, but, that's just speculation on my part.

A smaller detail is that the Sun-God's speech is almost point for point a counter to the one we see Reed giving at the beginning of each issue.

After the reread I really don't think that there would be too many different ways that Hickman could get the same amount of information across as effectively. I think each panel is going to be significant to future events.

So nyah on your decompression talk :twisted:


Hab


I don't deny that this information will be important, but I fail to see how any of this changes the fact that this information could have been given to the reader in a lot fewer pages than were used. We didn't need an entire issue dedicated to this.
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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:59 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
I don't deny that this information will be important, but I fail to see how any of this changes the fact that this information could have been given to the reader in a lot fewer pages than were used. We didn't need an entire issue dedicated to this.


I think I outlined that fairly well above. There was a tremendous amount of information and foreshadowing given in this particular issue, doing it in 3 pages would've made it an extremely crappy comic.

I mean you could make the argument you're making for just about every book on the stands, We did in fact need an entire issue dedicated to it, because there is still something to be said for subtlety and creative complexity in comic books.

I'll point out again that the same complaint was made during Hickman's FF run, people were wrong then as well :-D

Hab
Last edited by habitual on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby Stephen Day » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:01 pm

habitual wrote:
I think I outlined that fairly well above. There was a tremendous amount of information and foreshadowing given in this particular issue, doing it in 3 pages would've made it an extremely crappy comic.

I mean you could make the argument you're making for just about every book on the stands, We did in fact need an entire issue dedicated to it, because there is still something to be said for subtlety and creative complexity in comic books.

Hab


I can't say I agree, but am willing to agree to disagree at this point.
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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby habitual » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:26 pm

Stephen Day wrote:
I can't say I agree, but am willing to agree to disagree at this point.


Totally fair, but, I will present this as exhibit A and at the same time compliment Punchy's review as paying MUCH better attention to detail:

http://www.theouthousers.com/forum/the-news-stand/fantastic-four-604-spoilers-t78724.html?hilit=Fantastic%20Four%20604&start=100

Hab

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:26 am

habitual wrote:
Totally fair, but, I will present this as exhibit A and at the same time compliment Punchy's review as paying MUCH better attention to detail:

http://www.theouthousers.com/forum/the-news-stand/fantastic-four-604-spoilers-t78724.html?hilit=Fantastic%20Four%20604&start=100

Hab


Did you just compliment me?

:shock:

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby Amoebas » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:11 am

Punchy wrote:
Did you just compliment me?

:shock:

I guess you're not 'lazy' anymore. :lol:

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:08 pm

I realize that there's no way to know the future and that I could be wrong, but I truly believe this: Hickman doesn't "waste" issues.

If you go back and read "Secret Warriors," for example, there were a couple of issues in there where you just read them and went "WTF. Who cares about this shit."

That stuff, those seemingly throwaway panels, were some of the most important things in the run. It's hard to pay attention to it all, and yeah, sometimes it feels like decompression.

But all I can go on is the past, and with Hickman, I simply believe, because I've seen him do it, that NOTHING is a throwaway.

He spent all that time explaining that stuff for a reason.
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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby Punchy » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:13 pm

Amoebas wrote:I guess you're not 'lazy' anymore. :lol:


I do drink stronger coffee these days.

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:25 pm

Amoebas wrote:Maybe he could go back in time and kill Hank Pym.


Ha! It's funny you say that.

I'm picking up that "What If" series of Age of Ultron stories that started today...I still enjoyed that series, and am totally unashamed to say that.
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*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby chap22 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:43 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:I realize that there's no way to know the future and that I could be wrong, but I truly believe this: Hickman doesn't "waste" issues.

If you go back and read "Secret Warriors," for example, there were a couple of issues in there where you just read them and went "WTF. Who cares about this shit."

That stuff, those seemingly throwaway panels, were some of the most important things in the run. It's hard to pay attention to it all, and yeah, sometimes it feels like decompression.

But all I can go on is the past, and with Hickman, I simply believe, because I've seen him do it, that NOTHING is a throwaway.

He spent all that time explaining that stuff for a reason.

I honestly do not recall ever saying that about a single panel of Secret Warriors. in fact, if anything, I thought that book skipped talking about some stuff it should've shown more of. I damn sure never thought anything in there was extraneous or "filler"
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Re: New Avengers #16 (Everything lives Spoilers)

Postby ElijahSnowFan » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:28 pm

chap22 wrote:I honestly do not recall ever saying that about a single panel of Secret Warriors. in fact, if anything, I thought that book skipped talking about some stuff it should've shown more of. I damn sure never thought anything in there was extraneous or "filler"


No worries -- I made a broad statement there, but really, it was more directed at myself, in the regard there were a few times where I honestly didn't know where Hickman was going, one time when I literally read a sequence and said out loud, "What the fuck just happened?" (When Jacob Fury visited Commander Kraken on his deathbed, and killed him, I had absolutely no clue what the hell had happened. And Hickman didn't explain it until months and months and months later.)

That's what I mean -- Secret Warriors just made me a believer that with some writers, it's not decompression. Some writers use damn near all of their panels with a purpose.

I think Hickman's one of those guys.
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*Sniff, sniff* "Damn it, Diana...If I'd known they would trade us in for a JT Krul-written Captain Atom and "The Savage Hawkman," I'd have let Superboy-Prime destroy all reality."

"Superman flies and is really strong...what the fuck else do you need to know?!" -- Hitler, expressing his displeasure about DC rebooting and complaints about continuity

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