The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Amoebas** » Sat May 25, 2013 6:55 pm

Herald wrote:I think Hal's largely overrated, especially when written by Geoff Johns.

Back in 1981 (when Geoff was only 7) Hal was considered the greatest of all the Lanterns (by both his peers and the Guardians).

by **Log-Man** » Sat May 25, 2013 8:56 pm

DCnU Captain Atom is definitely top three. I have no idea where to put Shazam (Who?), though. Do we even have any info on where and what his powers currently are? I remember Johns saying he was not going to be the flying brick type anymore, veering away from the Superman 'type.' No idea if that happened, though.

by **Lord Simian** » Sun May 26, 2013 9:38 am

Almost, if not all, the powers of a Kryptonian... Plus shapeshifting, density control, invisibility, and telepathy?

How is J'onn LESS powerful than Superman, again? Unless you're counting the ability to sell a monthly title as a power. That's one Superman has that the Martian doesn't...

by **Log-Man** » Sun May 26, 2013 10:39 am

Lord Simian wrote:Almost, if not all, the powers of a Kryptonian... Plus shapeshifting, density control, invisibility, and telepathy?

How is J'onn LESS powerful than Superman, again? Unless you're counting the ability to sell a monthly title as a power. That's one Superman has that the Martian doesn't...

Hey, sales are the greatest power in the DCU!

But more seriously, I'm a huge J'onn fan and I believe he's one of the few that could give Superman a run for his money. Superman once said J'onn was the only being that actually scared him. Still, I give the (very slight) edge to Superman for a few reasons:

Slight edge in strength over J'onn. (Not sure what the current status of this in the DCnU is.)
Big edge in invulnerability over J'onn. (MM sacrifices some durability for a body that can morph. Again, not sure what the current status of this in the DCnU is.)
No vulnerability to fire. (The exact nature has changed many times over the years, but a vulnerability to one of the most common forces on Earth, even if only psychological, is a huge negative.)
The Fortress of Solitude. (And all of the resources therein, including mass quantities of Superman robots, futuristic technology and weaponry, etc. His resources are unbelievable.)
Reputation. (The general populace knows and loves Superman giving him massive influence whether he'll admit it or not. He's much more integrated into human society, too, despite the recent attempts to play up his alien origins.)

You've already listed J'onn's advantages, which absolutely cannot be downplayed, especially if his telepathic abilities are now bordering on ridiculous as they seem to be. His telepathy vs. Superman's heat vision would make it a very interesting fight if they had to go one on one.

by **habitual** » Sun May 26, 2013 11:33 am

1) Superman/Captain Marvel
2) Who really cares

Hab

by **habitual** » Sun May 26, 2013 11:36 am

Lord Simian wrote:Almost, if not all, the powers of a Kryptonian... Plus shapeshifting, density control, invisibility, and telepathy?

How is J'onn LESS powerful than Superman, again? Unless you're counting the ability to sell a monthly title as a power. That's one Superman has that the Martian doesn't...

Matches

Hab

by **Lord Simian** » Sun May 26, 2013 12:03 pm

By that logic, as Superman has a weakness against magic, is he less powerful than Zatanna? Besides...

And that's back when DC was worth reading.

by **habitual** » Sun May 26, 2013 12:13 pm

Lord Simian wrote:By that logic, as Superman has a weakness against magic, is he less powerful than Zatanna? Besides...

And that's back when DC was worth reading.

The only three characters that I can think of that have no glaring weaknesses are Marvel, Wonder Woman and the Spectre.

Spectre should probably be number one on all these lists.

Hab

by **Lord Simian** » Sun May 26, 2013 12:59 pm

habitual wrote:
The only two characters that I can think of that have no glaring weaknesses are Marvel, Wonder Woman and the Spectre.

Spectre should probably be number one on all these lists.

Hab

Should be, yeah.

As for Wonder Woman, remember: if a man ties her up, she loses her powers. Or that's how it used to be.

by **Log-Man** » Sun May 26, 2013 3:43 pm

Lord Simian wrote:By that logic, as Superman has a weakness against magic, is he less powerful than Zatanna?

That's a classic misinterpretation. Superman's not especially vulnerable to magic, he's just as susceptible as everyone else. This supposed vulnerability was put in place to explain why Mr. Mxyzptlk could affect him. People originally argued that his invulnerability meant he was immune to everything including magic, but that killed too many storylines. Thus, he's vulnerable. He doesn't take extra damage from magic, no more than anyone else.

You wouldn't say Batman has a vulnerability to bullets.

At least, that's what it originally meant. Now? Who the fuck knows?

Besides...

And that's back when DC was worth reading.

Superman's got his red panties on there, so I can't take that as an endorsement of post reboot MM. I sure hope to hell he really is immune to fire now, it's almost as dumb a weakness as the old GL yellow bs.

by **Draco x** » Sun May 26, 2013 3:56 pm

TheLurker wrote:This whole list is voided if you give Batman two weeks to prepare.

I was waiting for someone to bring up the Batman prep argument on this thread and lo and behold.

by **Amoebas** » Sun May 26, 2013 3:58 pm

Log-Man wrote: I sure hope to hell he really is immune to fire now, it's almost as dumb a weakness as the old GL yellow bs.

It had it's place and I loved what JM DeMatteis did to get J'Onn over his weakness.

But then Morrison had to fuck it all up again with that bic lighter in his first JLA story. :roll:

by **Grayson** » Sun May 26, 2013 5:15 pm

Log-Man wrote:That's a classic misinterpretation. Superman's not especially vulnerable to magic, he's just as susceptible as everyone else. This supposed vulnerability was put in place to explain why Mr. Mxyzptlk could affect him. People originally argued that his invulnerability meant he was immune to everything including magic, but that killed too many storylines. Thus, he's vulnerable. He doesn't take extra damage from magic, no more than anyone else.

You wouldn't say Batman has a vulnerability to bullets.

At least, that's what it originally meant. Now? Who the fuck knows?

That's how I've always understood it, however, I have also always thought that Superman's vulnerability to magic is stupid. :smt102

by **Draco x** » Mon May 27, 2013 6:12 pm

Here are some other characters that I would throw in:

Alpha Centurion-I think it was speculated he's as powerful as Superman for the brief time he was around in Metropolis
Ultraa-Don't know much about this character but he is said to be as powerful as Superman
Triumph-Not sure where he would rank but he was said to be pretty powerful
Olympian( 2)-Was able to one-shot the Eradicator with ease
Starman( Will Payton)-I forgot his power levels but it was said to be pretty strong
Hourman-I believe he's powerful as well but don't remember how much
Geo Force-He was actually able to increase his powers in the last Outsiders issue and almost destroy his whole country
Takion-Can anyone remember how powerful this guy was as he was able to hold his own against Green Lantern and
Captain Atom at the same time
Captain Comet-Another good contender
Breach-I know he's an offshoot of Captain Atom but I had to mention him
Bloodwynd-Was pretty powerful from what I remember.
Amazing Man-Was able to kill the Overmaster by absorbing his powers to use against him

Will think up some more.......