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5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Zechs » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:06 pm

adamiani wrote:While it won't bring the DCU back, permitting some elements of it to return-- and a commitment to healing the damage gradually over time-- would go a long ways.

And, hey, this is DC. They do a major reality-warping continuity shift roughly every three years anyhow. Might as well let one of the things do something good for a change.

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Victorian Squid » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:13 pm

People who still swear "the old DCU" will be returning for good once DC learns their lesson are nitwits.

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby PennyDreadful » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:19 pm

Well, the current DC comic book line seems to be mainly a vanity press for DD, Lee, Johns, and maybe one or two others. Everyone else pretty much has to do what the brain trust tells them if they want to keep working for them.

Marvel is far from perfect, but you just don't hear these horror stories about Marvel these days. And the creators seem to have more leeway.

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby adamiani » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:21 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:People who still swear "the old DCU" will be returning for good once DC learns their lesson are nitwits.


Well, of course it won't.

But I could see bits of continuity being swept back in, a JSA that actually happened in WWII. A history long enough for the JLI or Wolfman/Pérez Titans could have occurred in there somewhere. The occasional married superhero. The ability to reference Stephanie Brown in a freaking alternate timeline.

I'm not asking for Wally West and Cassandra Cain on a silver platter here. Just a DC that isn't *actively* hostile to me. That's pretty modest, all things considered.

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby adamiani » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm

PennyDreadful wrote:Well, the current DC comic book line seems to be mainly a vanity press for DD, Lee, Johns, and maybe one or two others. Everyone else pretty much has to do what the brain trust tells them if they want to keep working for them.

Marvel is far from perfect, but you just don't hear these horror stories about Marvel these days. And the creators seem to have more leeway.


Compare the art styles. Hell, just the covers!

Every DC book has the same style covers, the same corporate branding designed to reinforce linewide identity. This includes the frequent linewide gimmick-covers, but it isn't limited to that.

Most of Marvels books have distinctive designs, intended to emphasize book-specific (or sometimes Familywide) identity. Eg: the crazy stuff Aja does on Hawkeye; the white BG + Color-regions of Young Avengers; the single-color-and-black covers of Infinity. Even the posey-cheesecake and gimmicky covers of Defenders.

You're essentially intended to be able to identify an individual Marvel book at a glance just from the style, even before you pick out the characters-- where with DC, you're supposed to be able to identify first and foremost that *this is a DC comic!*

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Victorian Squid » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:44 pm

adamiani wrote:
Well, of course it won't.

But I could see bits of continuity being swept back in, a JSA that actually happened in WWII. A history long enough for the JLI or Wolfman/Pérez Titans could have occurred in there somewhere. The occasional married superhero. The ability to reference Stephanie Brown in a freaking alternate timeline.

I'm not asking for Wally West and Cassandra Cain on a silver platter here. Just a DC that isn't *actively* hostile to me. That's pretty modest, all things considered.


I have it on the worst authority that Wally West is now Wingman.

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Zechs » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:29 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:People who still swear "the old DCU" will be returning for good once DC learns their lesson are nitwits.


The Bat and Super Family would be better for it save on it make Jason a prick again. Better costumes and better character origins. The New 52 origins (though I'll neglect Bruce's and Jason's) just utterly suck. They suck so bad Barbara Gordon has to have TWO already.I kind of wish Tim Drake and Conner Kent have a second origin to replace the repulsive ones that currently plague their New 52 characters.
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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Grayson » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:02 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:I have it on the worst authority that Wally West is now Wingman.


:lol:
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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby holtom2000 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:05 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:The article is meant to be fun, of course, but while there's no doubt the reboot gave the industry a kick in the ass, two year later, the sales are just about back to where they were for DC, while sales in general are up. Of course, the Villains Month crap will likely see a huge boost in sales, encouraging that kind of gimmicky crap over substance. :(


I still say all No. 1s without the reboot would have done the same
DC's best books, post reboot, either ignored the reboot (looking at you Batman and Green Lantern) or had a-list talent (looking at you JLA).
JLA, if you'll recall, also finished with a mort league which included a talking monkey
It's my suspicion DC purposely raped, killed, threw cats around and otherwise did awful things to their characters, including sticking Congorilla on the JLA, to make the reboot seem all the more successful

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Stalzer2002 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:43 pm

LOLtron wrote:More likely than not, the editorial clusterfuck at DC is the result of a managerial clusterfuck at Warner Bros., and if heads haven't rolled yet, what makes anyone think they're going to now? If DC's parent company wasn't happy with the performance of DC after all this time, they would have changed things up by now.


I don't think so at all. WB executives aren't the ones making the mandate that no Bat family characters can be happy or get married. They're not the ones who fired Kevin Maguire and demanded that Justice League 3000 be rewritten to make it more grim and gritty. They're not the ones who wanted to kill John Stewart. It's absurd to suggest that these guys are sitting around their boardroom deciding the minutia of comic book storylines.

It's a popular narrative that creators are being micromanaged in the name of corporate synergy. That's horseshit. Look at the other media. There isn't much in the way of synergy. Batman: Brave and the Bold and Teen Titans Go bare little to no resemblance to the DCU. If synergy were important, DC would never brought back Hal and Barry and would have stuck with John Stewart and Wally West, who were better known thanks to the JLU. The same goes for Helena Bertinelli from Arrow (AND JLU) versus Helena Wayne in the DCU.

I would be shocked if anyone at the WB above Dan Didio read any of these comics. The truth is that the WB runs DC the same way Disney runs Marvel. They hire a middle manager and let him do whatever the hell he wants as long as the books turn a profit. I suppose that means that a small share of the blame belongs with the WB, but the lions share belongs with the people making the day to day decisions: Dan Didio, Jim Lee, Bob Harras and Geoff Johns. And if you think that blame belongs just with Harras and not Didio, watch the video of his little rant from Baltimore. Listen to not just his words (OUR edict, OUR mandate, for ME that's a very important statement to make), but also his tone. He's angry. He's scolding anyone who dares to disagree with him.

DC's problem is that they're being run by a small group of people whose egos are matched only by their incompetence. Pure and simple.
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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby TimH » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:09 pm

A petition to fire Didio will just encourage Warner Bros. These entertainment conglomerates only fire the folks who are well-loved by fans.

Case in point: Scott Lobdell vs Brian Azzarello.

Oh, whoops, DC hasn't fired Azzarello yet. Just wait though for editorial to mandate that Azzarello introduce Steve Jobs to the pages of Wonder Woman because management doesn't the difference between a Greek God and a Geek God. :groucho:

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby TimH » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:11 pm

TimH wrote: ... because management doesn't [know] the difference between a Greek God and a Geek God. :groucho:


Dammit! Grammar ruined my immaculate punchline! :smt013

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby Stalzer2002 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:14 pm

TimH wrote:A petition to fire Didio will just encourage Warner Bros. These entertainment conglomerates only fire the folks who are well-loved by fans.

Case in point: Scott Lobdell vs Brian Azzarello.

Oh, whoops, DC hasn't fired Azzarello yet. Just wait though for editorial to mandate that Azzarello introduce Steve Jobs to the pages of Wonder Woman because management doesn't the difference between a Greek God and a Geek God. :groucho:


To be fair to Lobdell though, he does have a quality that is very attractive to Didio and Harras: he's a spineless sycophant who will do what he's told and not have any of those pesky ideas that actual professional writers have. He's really their ideal employee.
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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby SporkBot » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:22 pm

adamiani wrote:While it won't bring the DCU back, permitting some elements of it to return-- and a commitment to healing the damage gradually over time-- would go a long ways.


It wouldn't be too late to go "Ultimate" and do a separate line of non-52 books to do just that. Of course, they might not like the idea of so many titles not conforming to their terrible New52 ideas.

And, hey, this is DC. They do a major reality-warping continuity shift roughly every three years anyhow. Might as well let one of the things do something good for a change.


It's their penchant for tweaking their universe that has many people open to the idea that the New52 may not last. A pipe dream, perhaps, but not altogether impossible. After all, they've never DE-BOOTED a universe before, have they? It's a marketing goldmine, I say!

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Re: 5.2 Reasons Not to Fire Dan Didio

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:32 pm

Stalzer2002 wrote:
To be fair to Lobdell though, he does have a quality that is very attractive to Didio and Harras: he's a spineless sycophant who will do what he's told and not have any of those pesky ideas that actual professional writers have. He's really their ideal employee.


Ouch. :lol: What did Lobdell ever do to you?
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